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Zonie63 -> RE: Michigan (12/13/2012 4:41:30 AM)
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ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69
Some things to consider:
Remember not so long ago when that call was put through to Governor Scott Walker by someone claiming to be one of the Koch bros? The caller asked if the Governor has sent agents into the crowd to rile things up. Walker said they had not but were considering it. They were considering it.
Sounds like something governments do. It wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened. Trouble is, riling people up is something that can backfire on politicians who need political stability and moderation in order to survive. Sometimes, a controlled burn can get out of control. That's why politicians shouldn't play with fire like that.
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Union dues pay for more than political contributions and the salaries of union bosses. Many locals have separate unemployment funds that provide a little something extra above what a worker gets from the state. Is there a single company in the US that has any such fund for when they lay off workers?
I'm not sure, although I know of some companies (like IBM) which gave their employees buy-outs and decent early retirements. Some companies might give more generous severance packages than others.
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In the case of the trades, union members have typically gone through a union-sanctioned trade school and spent time as an apprentice. They are well-trained in the latest building codes so you get the job done right, safely, and up to code.
Aren't a lot of licensed contractors (plumbers, electricians, etc.) self-employed business owners? If so, would they still need to be part of the union?
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For the last 30+ years the GOP has done everything they can to destroy unions in this country. Why? Because union members traditionally vote Democratic. And locals provide "boots on the ground" in an election year. So they co-opted the "religious right", they sent millions of union jobs to overseas factories, and push legislation to restirct collective bargaining rights at every turn. The outcome will be wages as low as those found in "developing" nations. Think you have a good job now? An H1B visa holder could easliy take it tomorrow. Or next year.
Quite true. Backed by big business, it stands to reason that the GOP will always support measures to increase their profit margin, which means going after unions, among other things. Ever since Reagan fired the Air Traffic Controllers, unions have passed their peak and are on the decline. In some cases, unions haven't really helped their own cause either, with a reputation for corruption and Mob influence, which helps the GOP and their pundits paint unions in an unfavorable light.
Jobs going overseas or to an H1B visa holder are more a consequence of public policies which allow that sort of thing, and I think it would happen regardless of whether unions existed or not. This is where I would lay some measure of blame upon the Democrats as well, since their own internal divisions and lack of backbone is how we ended up with NAFTA and the general push towards globalism which has contributed to the weakening of unions, the labor movement in general, and the overall economy in this country. I remember when NAFTA passed, the Republicans were unanimously for it, while the Democrats were divided. There were a number of Democratic holdouts, mainly from industrial states with strong union support, but Clinton was (somehow) able to get enough Democrats to change their minds to push through its passage.
But even without that, the direction the country was taking was clearly sending jobs overseas and allowing businesses to bypass unions and U.S. wage and labor laws.
Actually, what unions should do at this point is take a more global perspective. If the corporations are going global, then so should the unions. Instead of rallying at State capitols, they should be rallying at the U.S. Capitol, pressuring Congress to enact conditions that in order for a nation to receive Most Favored Nation trading status, they must allow labor organizers to operate freely and set up unions in their nations. They must have the right to collectively bargain and to strike for better conditions.
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While I don't condone the violence shown in the video, if someone came around messing with your paycheck and your woking conditions, tell me things wouldn't get ugly real fast.
I can see that, although it still seems somewhat short-sighted. What's so sad about all this is that this seems more comparable to junkyard dogs fighting over scraps in the middle of the Rust Belt. It's not as if there's any hope for the future or that there's anything to look forward to. All that's left is to desperately hold on to what you've got and hope that you don't lose it.
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And yes, the GOP IS falling apart. They are openly at war with themselves over basic concepts like raising taxes to pay for wars. They are the party of Old White Guys and there just aren't that many of them around any more. It's so bad that Mitch McConnell filibustered himself on Monday! I think Anne Coulter might finally get it. She said on FOX the other day "We LOST the election!"
I wouldn't be so quick to write off the GOP just yet, at least not until some third party can become strong enough to displace the Republicans. I would actually welcome the rise of one or more third parties to kind of shake things up a bit. Our political system desperately needs some new blood to revitalize it and come up with fresh ideas. I see a lot Old White Guys in the unions and on the Democratic side of the aisle, so maybe both parties need to start doing a better job.
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From the end of WW II through the late 70's, unions built the strongest middle class the world has ever known and this country prospered.
Once again, I agree. One might well wonder just what in the hell has happened to us, but there's probably plenty of blame to go around. I wouldn't blame the unions for that, at least not anymore than I would blame the electorate as a whole for the candidates they vote for. We all should have known better, but now, we're in the crapper, fighting over scraps. Or perhaps something akin to scavenging over a beached whale.
I live in a right to work state, although there are some active unions here. Perhaps not enough; it's hard to start unions. Employees get fired if they try to start a union, and a lot of other people seem happy with their jobs don't see any need for unions. Better wages would be nice, but lower prices would also be nice. People can still get by on lower wages as long as prices and rents can remain under control, and perhaps that's where the solution may lie. We don't even have to tax the rich; all we have to do is lower prices.
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