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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/13/2013 5:38:13 PM   
Moonlightmaddnes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes

My husband has a gun that looks just like a real gun but it shoots harmless pellets. He got it to chase squirrels off the bird feeder but found it useful for our teenager when he got mouthy. It does not even hurt, well it stings a bit if it hits bare skin but on jeans or a thick shirt you can barely feel the impact. I was relly glad our neighbors knew us really well when DH was shooting our son when he did not have a shirt on and he squealed daddy please stop shooting me. Hilarious how a kid who could come home with purple bruises from football and find them cool squeals like a girl when it comes to his dad.


When my mom was really young, someone shot her legs with a pellet gun. Since then she's had these varicose veins on her legs that cause her pain.



I am not sure what kind it is but it is not a pellet gun since he has one and it's not that. The little things it shoots are soft. It is really meant to scare small animals off.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/13/2013 9:54:20 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

Actually, Maria, our opinions do not differ by as much as you might think they do. I agree as to what the point of edge play is I think you, just might, not understand that for that "push" to happen for some people there does have to be an "edge" of real danger. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying it is good, bad, or other. I am just saying for some people there really does have to be an edge they can fall off of before anything will kick off in their head. In which case it is the duty of the people taking part to know what they are doing.

I know this is more than likely going to catch me nine kinds of hell but....last week. The glock was taken from his glove box. (his gun he knows very well how it works) It was leveled at his head, by me, in public (yeah everyone go ahead and yell about that) He was told to drive to a "friends" house while I did "things" with it to myself. When we got there he was told to clean the gun off with his mouth. When he objected the gun was put in his mouth by force. He stoped objecting quickly and did what he was told. He was crying by the time he was done but when he put the gun down he thanked me. Trust me he in no way now thinks that gun is toy, prop, or harmless. Neither do I, which is why my finger was never on the trigger while this was going on.

It was the edge he needed to be pushed to. Infact there is a very good chance that he now better understands how powerful guns are.

I am also more than happy to say that nothing like this should ever be done by anyone under the influance of an substances.


You didn't mention is the safety was on or off......if off, then you were being quite foolish, because for example, you could trip, and gun could hit against something and go off, it doesn't take all that much pressure in the right place to get a gun like that to fire. The reason it is pretty stupid IMO to play with loaded guns is that the risk of an accident happening is way too high, and the consequences just too great. You pierce a vein or artery and there are ways to slow down or stop the bleeding, until you can get help, most forms of edge play with their risks generally are such that you can preclude killing someone pretty easily, whereas with a gun, that one mistake is likely to be fatal, given the close quarters I assume gun play has. You shove a gun up someones butt or vagina and it goes off, and they are more likely then not to die. It isn't even RACK, it is way beyond it. I object to it personally because it is frankly taking stupid risks when they are so many other ways to get off *shrug*. On the other hand, in the land of the free the right to be foolish is there, too.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/13/2013 10:10:30 PM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
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Status: offline 		Just as we have the right to be judgmental.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/13/2013 11:42:42 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
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quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

Actually, Maria, our opinions do not differ by as much as you might think they do. I agree as to what the point of edge play is I think you, just might, not understand that for that "push" to happen for some people there does have to be an "edge" of real danger. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying it is good, bad, or other. I am just saying for some people there really does have to be an edge they can fall off of before anything will kick off in their head. In which case it is the duty of the people taking part to know what they are doing.

I know this is more than likely going to catch me nine kinds of hell but....last week. The glock was taken from his glove box. (his gun he knows very well how it works) It was leveled at his head, by me, in public (yeah everyone go ahead and yell about that) He was told to drive to a "friends" house while I did "things" with it to myself. When we got there he was told to clean the gun off with his mouth. When he objected the gun was put in his mouth by force. He stoped objecting quickly and did what he was told. He was crying by the time he was done but when he put the gun down he thanked me. Trust me he in no way now thinks that gun is toy, prop, or harmless. Neither do I, which is why my finger was never on the trigger while this was going on.

It was the edge he needed to be pushed to. Infact there is a very good chance that he now better understands how powerful guns are.

I am also more than happy to say that nothing like this should ever be done by anyone under the influance of an substances.


You didn't mention is the safety was on or off......if off, then you were being quite foolish, because for example, you could trip, and gun could hit against something and go off, it doesn't take all that much pressure in the right place to get a gun like that to fire. The reason it is pretty stupid IMO to play with loaded guns is that the risk of an accident happening is way too high, and the consequences just too great. You pierce a vein or artery and there are ways to slow down or stop the bleeding, until you can get help, most forms of edge play with their risks generally are such that you can preclude killing someone pretty easily, whereas with a gun, that one mistake is likely to be fatal, given the close quarters I assume gun play has. You shove a gun up someones butt or vagina and it goes off, and they are more likely then not to die. It isn't even RACK, it is way beyond it. I object to it personally because it is frankly taking stupid risks when they are so many other ways to get off *shrug*. On the other hand, in the land of the free the right to be foolish is there, too.

Excessive chance = .000000001%

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 2:26:31 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
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Status: offline 		*snort* Not to make lite of this but I didn't know I had to point out the obvious. Yes, the safety was on. It was on before I ever took it out of the his glovebox and I checked when I took it out to make sure it was still on. By the way....people watch to many movies if they think just bumping a gun against something will make it go off. I don't know I think maybe people are looking at this the wrong way. Everyone that plays safe and would never do this....more power to you. Some of us need more than "safe" some of us are willing to take a risk. Maybe we are weird. Maybe we are flat out fucked up. Who knows? What I do know is that some people bleed out faster than others. So if you are thirty miles from a hospital pressure might not save you if you slip and cut a major vein. CPR does not always work. So if someone goes blue on you...you could just be fucked. Third degree burns are one of the fastest ways to send someone into shock that they might never come out of. And bullet wounds....well, yes, they can kill. As someone that has survived being shot, stabbed, and a whole load of other things that most people wouldn't (none of which happened during "play" ) I can tell you that the world is full of dangers that jump out at you when you don't want them to and for some of us this sort of "play" helps to deal with those things. As for other ways to get off...what works for you might not work for others. Call me crazy, foolish, stupid if you feel like, but I don't tell others what to do with their lives and in 42 years no one has died do to play with me.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 4:45:01 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I have done some pretty stupid things in my domming days through not paying due care and attention. I cringe when I think about the medical staple I lost inside a guys scrotum. It frightens me to remember the incident where I accidentally injected someone else's blood into my own flesh and the months of waiting for full test results for both of us. It scares me to think I nearly died that night when Steve playfully grabbed me round the neck and accidentally paralyzed my windpipe. I still have larynx problems from that incident.

Actually what you described sounded pretty darn hot but lets not get confused with real danger and not real danger. When I fuck with someones head they have no idea if its real or not but I can guarantee they are going to believe its real and thats whats important here. I very rarely get to do head fucks anymore but when I did the results were pretty mind blowing.

Like you, I used to like playing dangerously, thats why I used to climb many hundreds of feet up rock faces without rope. Im no wuss! I love the adrenalin rush but even back then it was my rush and if I fell nobody else got killed. I still climb but I now do it with all the right certified gear and other experienced climbers. I still get the rush but the chances of me going home to my kids at the end of the day is much higher than it used to be

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 5:39:13 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		It makes me shake my head when otherwise intelligent and experienced people can say things as false as this:
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
If they have been around guns their entire lives and taken numerous courses, they would not be playing with them like that.

The reality is probably exactly the opposite. That, like other object fetishes (panties, stockings, etc), the people who fetishize guns are primarily the ones who grew up around them and saw them a lot.

Honestly, njlauren, your comments stand out in this thread. Lots of people are saying, "I would never engage in gun play, and here's why." You're repeatedly saying, "Anyone who engages in gun play knows nothing about guns, and is a general dumbshit."

Maybe separate facts from moralism? You might learn something. Also, if you could restrain your "I'm better than you" reflex for long enough to ask someone, "Really? Why do you do things like that? I'm curious how someone could be so different from me," you might discover that people sometimes have personal histories well outside the fuzzy handcuff box.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 6:22:45 AM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		So its not dangerous playing with a live gun? I'm genuinely asking as I come from a country that doesn't allow us to carry a fire arm and so have absolutely no experience with them.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 6:28:56 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

So its not dangerous playing with a live gun? I'm genuinely asking as I come from a country that doesn't allow us to carry a fire arm and so have absolutely no experience with them.

Were you asking me? (Sorry if you weren't.) Yes, of course it is, and it's on my hard limit list. However, I don't believe that people who engage in gun play know nothing about guns, any more than I believe people who engage in free climbing or base jumping know nothing about climbing or jumping.

I think your story about climbing and your kids is well taken. People who have "extreme" activities often mellow in their tastes once they redefine their lives as more than just a personal thing. They no longer feel they have the right to risk their lives, because their lives are no longer their own sole property to risk.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 6:34:48 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Believe it or not, Maria, its not so much the danger that I like. In fact I am a mommy domme, I like to make my "kids" feel good, comforted, warm , and safe. My whole life though I have attracted people that want to be on the edge of just about everything. I did foolish things in my youth but as an adult make sure that I am educated enough to reduce the danger to those I play with. That little play last week...I could have very well let that young mans girlfriend play for him. She has never touched a gun in her life. I could have blown off his request for something he wanted done and just waited for him to make the kind of mistakes that do get people killed when they get near the edge. I didn't and I don't regret it.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 7:06:35 AM   
MariaB


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Status: offline 		thanks MissImortal and RedMagic.

My kids terrify me because they enjoy living dangerously. I have to nip myself and remind myself that I was just like them. One of the things I have always said when it comes to high risk sports is, sooner or later the chances of having an accident are high especially when it comes to things like base jumping, which is something my eldest son is preparing to do. The kind of sports I did and the kind of sports my kids now do are all dependent on not making human error in a split second decision and with those kind of sports theres a lot of split second decisions to be made.

The sports I do now depend on me using the safety equipment properly and has no room, nor tolerance for human error. Its no longer about split second decisions and so is relatively safe providing you have the knowledge, the athleticism and the right gear.

The first that I mentioned is not like gun play with a real gun. It sounds more like the second. Providing you know what your doing and that gun is in the correct hands then you are relatively safe.

Now I'm pretty certain that if guns were allowed over here and I just happened to own and know how to properly use a revolver, I would probably at some point used it within a dominant environment. I'm like the cat calling the kettle black because when I initially read your post MissImortal, I had a big evil grin on my face and this urge to fly out to wherever you are and join up with you for some double domming!! I then come down to earth and thought 'wow, hang on a minute, that has to be bloody dangerous'.

RM is right, its an age thing ;)

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 7:16:53 AM   
MissImmortalPain


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Status: offline 		Kansas, Maria, I live in Kansas....and I know at least one other "sub" that could use the same kind of play. If guns really bother you though I also have chains, bats, and knives (mostly swords)

I don't know about the age thing....you can't be older than I am (and if you are, bite me for being that hot at our age)

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 7:22:11 AM   
MariaB


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Status: offline 		Well if I ever come to Kansas I will be sure to get in touch!

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 7:37:20 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

So its not dangerous playing with a live gun? I'm genuinely asking as I come from a country that doesn't allow us to carry a fire arm and so have absolutely no experience with them.

Yes it is, you can do much to lesson the danger but rule one of gun safety is it is always loaded rule two it never point it at anyone you don't have to shoot.
(and that meant HAVE TO not want to)

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 4:43:48 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

*snort* Not to make lite of this but I didn't know I had to point out the obvious. Yes, the safety was on. It was on before I ever took it out of the his glovebox and I checked when I took it out to make sure it was still on.



Are you sure about that? Because a Glock 19 doesn't have any external safety other than the "integrated trigger safety." You can't check the safety on that other than to make sure the trigger is clear. That's one of its main selling points.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 4:58:23 PM   
Duskypearls


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

*snort* Not to make lite of this but I didn't know I had to point out the obvious. Yes, the safety was on. It was on before I ever took it out of the his glovebox and I checked when I took it out to make sure it was still on.



Are you sure about that? Because a Glock 19 doesn't have any external safety other than the "integrated trigger safety." You can't check the safety on that other than to make sure the trigger is clear. That's one of its main selling points.


True, just like both my Sigs and .357

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 5:32:57 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls
True, just like both my Sigs and .357


That's OK, she must have known what she was doing because she said so. She said she knows lots about firearms.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 9:01:35 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

It makes me shake my head when otherwise intelligent and experienced people can say things as false as this:
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
If they have been around guns their entire lives and taken numerous courses, they would not be playing with them like that.

The reality is probably exactly the opposite. That, like other object fetishes (panties, stockings, etc), the people who fetishize guns are primarily the ones who grew up around them and saw them a lot.

Honestly, njlauren, your comments stand out in this thread. Lots of people are saying, "I would never engage in gun play, and here's why." You're repeatedly saying, "Anyone who engages in gun play knows nothing about guns, and is a general dumbshit."

Maybe separate facts from moralism? You might learn something. Also, if you could restrain your "I'm better than you" reflex for long enough to ask someone, "Really? Why do you do things like that? I'm curious how someone could be so different from me," you might discover that people sometimes have personal histories well outside the fuzzy handcuff box.

I didn't say they were dumbshit, I said they were foolish, and btw, I wasn't the only one, read the threads before making it seem like I was alone. Other people said exactly what I did, that when you start playing around with guns, that is makes someone careless, instead of being something that rightfully should be respected, it inures you to the danger of it. All I can tell you is I have been through gun safety instruction, know more then a few gun enthusiasts, and the major point they always teach you is to respect the weapon, that it has a purpose, and that when you forget it people die. It just takes one mistake, one stupid moment, and someone is dead, and that is the point. You can do it 50 times, and have no problems, and it is that once that gets you.

I just love it when people go on about the risks in life, how there are no guarantees, and that is of course true, you have a massive heart attack in an isolated area, and your heart stops, CPR is only about 15% effective in actually restarting the heart (it was designed as life support, not restarting it). A fucking meteor can fall on you, the odds of getting hurt or killed in a car are not non zero, you ride the subways at 2am through really rotten areas of the city in the middle of a murder epidemic, all are risky. My point is simply that with gun play, that you can get the edge while ameliorating the risk, and I just feel that a weapon, a real gun, is not a toy and shouldn't be treated as one..if people want to do it, I can't stop them, but that is my opinion. You can tell me how edge players are all so bold, how they are pushing the limits, how it is so real, but quite frankly, there are places where I push it and where I won't....I still have scars and skin that never healed right from pulling someone from a burning car after an accident, when the damn gas tank could have exploded and incinerated me, but it was worth the risk.....we all take risks, I just happen to feel very strongly about weapons and misuse of them, I saw the victims of misuse of them, a 3 year old girl that we couldn't do anything for , dead because her stupid parents carelessly left it around, loaded, had another case where someone shot their wife, they heard a noise (turned out it was squirrels had gotten into the attic and the walls, were making a racket), and johnny rambo shot at the noise, bullet went through a wall, nicked a major blood vessel in the wife.
I know I sound harsh and judgemental, but I will admit I am sensitive to the dangers of guns, I have seen the damage carelessness does, and gun play triggers a lot in me.

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 9:04:07 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls
True, just like both my Sigs and .357


That's OK, she must have known what she was doing because she said so. She said she knows lots about firearms.


Ya got me on that one, I didn't know that about the Glock either, I thought it had an external safety, ya learn something every day (and now you know why I don't keep guns, I probably would end up shooting myself *lol*).

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RE: Gun play in bdsm? - 3/14/2013 9:24:01 PM   
HisPet21


Posts: 395
Status: offline 		Honest to goodness, I don't know enough about guns to make a judgement call on them. I don't know enough to decide, for myself, whether or not I think gun play can be responsible. But I do wish to comment on this little tidbit...

quote:

Lots of people are saying, "I would never engage in gun play, and here's why." You're repeatedly saying, "Anyone who engages in gun play knows nothing about guns, and is a general dumbshit."


I'm not trying to be a dick, Red, but I think this is a little more than unfair. It's very possible to disagree with someone's choices or habits---even to condemn them as idiotic---and not think of said person as a "general dumbshit." There are lots of people I respect and care about, whose actions I still judge and condemn. Take smoking, for example. While I respect someone's right to smoke if they so please, I honestly think it's a dumb thing to do. Do I think everyone who smokes is a "dumbshit"? Uh, no. One of the men I most respect in my life is an avid smoker. But if he asks, "Do you think it's okay to smoke?" Do you know what my answer will be? "No, it's fucking stupid."

I think we live in a culture right now that condemns condemnation, especially in the kink community where "my kink may not be your kink" is cannon. And while I certainly admire and cherish open mindedness as a personality trait, I also think that universal acceptance of all activities under the guise of "your morality is not my morality" is just plain cowardly. You can and should speak up against activities you think are dangerous, even if it isn't PC. And it's not as if njlauren's ideas are coming out of left field. I think we can all agree that guns can kill, accidents can happen, and even experienced people can make mistakes. To argue that guns should never be used as a toy, and that doing so is irresponsible, is not exactly ludicrous. Lots of people believe that putting someone's life so heavily at risk--even if the person consents to it--is immoral or irresponsible (not saying this is your argument, njlauren, but since I'm on a roll...). It's a legitimate view, even if it may appear "judgmental." And even if it is, who cares? Challenging each other is how people learn.

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