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Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/19/2013 11:40:36 PM

Marini

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Okay its almost 3am, I have had some red wine {for my heart of course}, and I am tipsy posting.

Does it bother anyone else that the suspected terrorists are so young?

My favorite heartbeat young person is 19, and we were talking about this tonight.
He was floored that the suspect was the same age that he is.

Does the fact that the 19 year old appeared to be so involved in such typical Western activities, including recent high school graduation/and being enrolled in college matter?

Another reason I ask this, is because so many seem to feel that young/juvenile offenders can be rehabiliated no matter crimes they commit.

Its so easy to think that way, except in cases like this.

Maybe this young person can be rehabilitated like all the others his age?
{IF he survives}
Don't many around here feel that most young people can turn their lives around?
pot/kettle/black around here much?

Is it just me, or does it not really matter?
Does the fact that they are/were 26 and 19 matter, or is it not relevant?
Please be gentle, I am a very sensitive and delicate soul.

Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 4/20/2013 12:08:32 AM >

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 12:07:43 AM

stef

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Hate is not age dependent.

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 12:13:42 AM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Hate is not age dependent.

I totally agree stef.

But so many feel that young offenders {especially under 20},can be rehabilitated no matter what they do.

I have struggled against smaller sized electric chairs for years.

Also, I had to chuckle when I heard someone on the radio say, that the owner of the boat could defend himself with a frying pan if he didn't have a gun.

< Message edited by Marini -- 4/20/2013 12:32:19 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 3

RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 12:15:26 AM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
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My aunt was beaten to death by 2 16 year olds. Evil comes younger and younger these days.

As for rehabilitation, I don't give one flying fuck if they, or this scum that killed so many, can be. They should never ever be allowed to breathe a free breath again.

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 12:17:42 AM

midmichiganguy

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I am not surprised at all. Youth is no impediment to hatred or evil actions. You see everyday in the news where young children 5-10 years younger than this are raping, murdering, committing other crimes, etc. etc. So why then should I be surprised that a 26 year old or a 19 year old are involved with bombings?

(in reply to Marini)

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 12:21:56 AM

Marini

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I am sorry to hear about what happened to your Auntie, jas.
That's horrific, and I hope they got LIFE with no parole, ever.

I agree with all of the posts, I am just looking at what happened from another angle, based on how young the younger suspected terrorist is.
And I do mean TERRORIST.

Thanks everyone

*remind me to pull up this thread/next time we have a spirited death penalty debate.

Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 4/20/2013 12:33:20 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to midmichiganguy)

Post #: 6

RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 12:36:16 AM

cravenhedonism

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It bothers me that anyone, regardless of age, would commit such devastating and random acts of cruelty

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 2:54:47 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Does it bother anyone else that the suspected terrorists are so young?

No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Does the fact that the 19 year old appeared to be so involved in such typical Western activities, including recent high school graduation/and being enrolled in college matter?

No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Another reason I ask this, is because so many seem to feel that young/juvenile offenders can be rehabiliated no matter crimes they commit.

Its so easy to think that way, except in cases like this.

Maybe this young person can be rehabilitated like all the others his age?
{IF he survives}
Don't many around here feel that most young people can turn their lives around?
pot/kettle/black around here much?

It is wrong to rehabilitate evil people, since that enables them to reproduce and multiply their evil alleles.

These two brothers were without a conscience and they trained to be warriors (boxing, wrestling).

The correct way to address these evil alleles is to prevent such people and all their male relatives from begetting children. According to evolution theory this will cause cultural and genetic changes in their population resulting within a couple of generations in a strong reduction of such evil occurrences.

< Message edited by Rule -- 4/20/2013 2:55:43 AM >

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Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to Marini)

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 4:12:20 AM

tweakabelle

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To the OP:

Yes It bothers me greatly that this young man on the threshold of his life, should choose to throw it all away in such a repugnant manner.
It bothers me that he spent those years when he acquired his knowledge of the world in the USA. Compared to children born at the same time in Dagestan, his birthplace (we are told) he was incredibly fortunate, yet rather than feeling gratitude for his good fortune he was alienated to the extent that his inner core never seems to have left Dagestan, it was immune to the freedoms and prosperity and teenage fun his peers enjoyed.

It bothers me that he somehow managed to keep his core self out of sight of his peers, associates and teachers all this time.

It bothers me that somehow this talented person (excellent athlete, good student, great prospects etc) was somehow immune to doing good and instead chose evil.

I suspect that as more facts are revealed in time, a lot of very difficult questions are going to be raised for all members of all Western societies and I don't feel optimistic that these questions will be addressed let alone the underlying issues resolved.

I am not interested in currying sympathy for this particular individual - he made his bed and he can lie in it - but it does bother me that if there are other young people feeling the same as this one did, we have no way of identifying it, or addressing it.

It should bother everyone that at his young age, he had concluded that the only way to change the world he was about to inherit was through violence

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/20/2013 4:20:06 AM >

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 4:17:53 AM

LafayetteLady

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They are both adults, and they made adult decisions. We aren't talking about a 12 year old kid who could have been unduly influenced by an adult.

Is it possible this young man's thinking could be changed? Perhaps. When he finds out what happens to scum who deliberately kill people by sitting in prison and becoming some guy's bitch, I'm sure he will have second thoughts. Do I care? Not one bit. I am very pro death penalty in these situations and have no problem with him being in the general prison population prior to his execution instead of the usual solitary. He deserves much worse than our Federal Penal System is likely to give him.

He has no remorse, and I have no pity.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 10

RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 4:41:44 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Okay its almost 3am, I have had some red wine {for my heart of course}, and I am tipsy posting.
Does it bother anyone else that the suspected terrorists are so young?

Yes.

quote:

My favorite heartbeat young person is 19, and we were talking about this tonight.
He was floored that the suspect was the same age that he is.
Does the fact that the 19 year old appeared to be so involved in such typical Western activities, including recent high school graduation/and being enrolled in college matter?

No.

quote:

Another reason I ask this, is because so many seem to feel that young/juvenile offenders can be rehabiliated no matter crimes they commit.
Its so easy to think that way, except in cases like this.
Maybe this young person can be rehabilitated like all the others his age?
{IF he survives}
Don't many around here feel that most young people can turn their lives around?
pot/kettle/black around here much?
Is it just me, or does it not really matter?
Does the fact that they are/were 26 and 19 matter, or is it not relevant?
Please be gentle, I am a very sensitive and delicate soul.
Peace

I'm not surprised he was involved in typical "Western" activities at that age. Not at all. If you were asking if it's shocking that some young kid involved in those activities would commit the actions committed, then, yes, that is shocking.

I don't know what caused either of those guys to do what they did. I find it incredible that two so young could have so much hate that they would do what they planned to do. It's one thing to kill someone as a reaction, but these two planned this shit out. There was foreknowledge and planning. That takes a shitload more than young angst.

If they had grown up "on the mean streets" as gang members or such, that would be a different story, but I'm going to guess that this is not the case for these two, considering their location. That's not saying that Boston or MA doesn't have it's issues, but I don't think that is typical of the MIT/college student/graduate. Ya know?

They have been here 11 years? Did I read somewhere that they earned scholarships to come and attend college in the US? Wtf happened in those 11 years? How did they gather that much hate?

These things bother me. Greatly.

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(in reply to Marini)

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 5:40:57 AM

muhly22222

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I'm with tweakabelle.

Does his age bother me? Yes, but not in the sense that I think he can be rehabilitated.

What bothers me is that at 19 years old, a person is supposed to be full of hope, full of idealistic wishes to change the world, and to do so through the forces of good. And this person...didn't have that. I don't know why he did what he did. I don't know what his goals in setting off the bombs were. I don't know what message he intended to send. I don't know if he wanted to change the world. But whatever all of those were, he chose some of the most evil means available to him to accomplish his ends. That bothers me.

Was he evil? Yes. You don't set off bombs in areas where there will be innocents who have done nothing to deserve harm, especially children. Any person who willfully causes harm to children is evil. And that bothers me, too, that such a level of hate and evil exists in this world.

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(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 12

RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 5:51:10 AM

Powergamz1

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He's not. Your attempt to portray him as a child is irrational, there will be no booster seat in the electric chair.

He's old enough to have joined the military and done a tour in combat, he's old enough to have gotten married and have a child, he's old enough to have finished an associates degree, he's old enough to have started a business, and on, and on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I am sorry to hear about what happened to your Auntie, jas.
That's horrific, and I hope they got LIFE with no parole, ever.

I agree with all of the posts, I am just looking at what happened from another angle, based on how young the younger suspected terrorist is.
And I do mean TERRORIST.

Thanks everyone

*remind me to pull up this thread/next time we have a spirited death penalty debate.

Peace

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 6:11:12 AM

WantsOfTheFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I suspect that as more facts are revealed in time, a lot of very difficult questions are going to be raised for all members of all Western societies and I don't feel optimistic that these questions will be addressed let alone the underlying issues resolved.

so part of tha blame for these kids laying bombs for a massacre of civilians in their own community lies wit tha west & all members of tha west must wrestle wit that fact?

yr point could be taken as a need for tha west to question tha violent antipathy within islam itself but in view of yr apologistic tendency of tha faith i take yr comment the other way.

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 4/20/2013 6:13:55 AM >

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 6:28:39 AM

tj444

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Stats seem to show that men become less violent when they are older, so add another 20, 30, 40 years and he will likely be different.. it could be cuz testosterone & hormones diminish as people age..

The 19 year old came as a child, the 26 year old was 15 and I get the impression that he did not adapt as well or easily to the US, he didnt feel he fit in or understood Americans.. that likely made him angry and wanting to blame someone.. he likely also wanted to find a place where he did fit in an imo that is why he had a Russian FB page and perhaps communicated with other young angry men there that were more militant and violent.. I think the younger brother did fit in better cuz he came here at a younger age, he developed friendships, did activities, etc but I think the older brother influenced the younger brother quite a bit, especially since the other family ties were no longer there.. the father left a year ago to live in Russia again.. the sister had not talked to them for the last couple of years.. the uncle had not seen or heard fromt them since 2005.. for whatever reason, they even became isolated from their very own family.. Imo, its a similar brew that creates the Lanzas (Lanza was apparently bullied when he attended Sandy Hook) and other killers like that.. especially since (so far) there seems to be no reason given for the bombings.. no reason what they were angry about.. I would really like to know the reasons why their family here stopped talking to them.. Those are just my impressions from the information so far, he may survive and tell interogators everything.. if he does survive, I somehow doubt he will ever get out of jail so rehabiltation doesnt really matter if he cant hurt people like that again..

I think even tho someone those ages have adult bodies, their brains are still developing.. I consider myself at those ages as a "kid" cuz I look back now and see how differently I think about things now.. when you are young at those ages, its easy to be influenced (in both good and bad ways).. by other people, the media, books, internet, etc.. the problem is they dont realize that manipulation and that they can be a pawn for someone or some ideal, movement, etc & they dont think things thru, they dont think about the negative consequences..

These young men did what they did, its too late for them to change that, now the last brother will have to live with the consequences.. if he survives..

jmo..

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 6:45:27 AM

WantsOfTheFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Does it bother anyone else that the suspected terrorists are so young?

My favorite heartbeat young person is 19, and we were talking about this tonight.
He was floored that the suspect was the same age that he is.

yup radicalisation is all tha better in tha impressionable minds of tha young. extreme ideology can be taught from childhood for some terrorists.

quote:

Does the fact that the 19 year old appeared to be so involved in such typical Western activities, including recent high school graduation/and being enrolled in college matter?

Another reason I ask this, is because so many seem to feel that young/juvenile offenders can be rehabiliated no matter crimes they commit.

Its so easy to think that way, except in cases like this.

Maybe this young person can be rehabilitated like all the others his age?

thing is this ain't just wrongheaded thinking. its beyond rational religious belief 'n' ideology so nearly impossible to cure & tha kid has to be pretty far gone wit those beliefs to try to kill ordinary families like that.

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 4/20/2013 6:54:26 AM >

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 7:16:38 AM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
But so many feel that young offenders {especially under 20},can be rehabilitated no matter what they do.

Actually, in my opinion the entire justice system is pretty much fucked with it's focus on retribution rather than fixing the fucking problem.

In this case, my sense of "fixing the fucking problem" tells me that no matter what sort of dramatic changes the guilty parties in this went through I would not trust on them on the streets again. Blowing up people just crosses a trust line in my mind. Ergo, I'd put them to death.

Of course, I have serious issues with credibility of the authorities nowadays so I don't really believe I know what happened here or whether these two young men were responsible or who else was responsible, etc.

edited to add:
man, I suck at the whole "bleeding heart" part of being a liberal.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 4/20/2013 7:17:19 AM >

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 7:20:03 AM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I suspect that as more facts are revealed in time, a lot of very difficult questions are going to be raised for all members of all Western societies and I don't feel optimistic that these questions will be addressed let alone the underlying issues resolved.

so part of tha blame for these kids laying bombs for a massacre of civilians in their own community lies wit tha west & all members of tha west must wrestle wit that fact?

yr point could be taken as a need for tha west to question tha violent antipathy within islam itself but in view of yr apologistic tendency of tha faith i take yr comment the other way.

I had in mind the kind of questions the muhly22222 had no trouble identifying and asking. I would have thought that in negotiating any of life's problems, asking if one contributed to creating the problem is always a good policy.

Clearly there was a failure to imbue values appropriate to the society they were living in into these two thugs. Which no one seems to have noticed. Why did a 19 year old feel the only way to change the world was through murderous suicidal violence? Was his world that devoid of hope? Why didn't anyone notice? I find it amazing that he didn't feel able to share any of his inner feelings with the adults around him none of the adults - family, teachers trainers imans. Even his relations profess to be as mystified by his behaviour as every one else.

You seem to be suggesting that questions such as these shouldn't be asked. Unless these questions are asked and answered, there's nothing to prevent the horror being replicated in the future by another alienated youth with another grudge or cause.

Some might even argue that this is part of the difference between a kneejerk response and a considered one.

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RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 7:58:24 AM

Rule

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You ought to google "Murders by Muslims".

We had such murders on 13 april 2011 in Baflo here in The Netherlands. Alasam Samarie - a cheerful and positive young man - fled Benin and came to The Netherlands for asylum. He managed to get a girlfriend in the village of Baflo. On 13 april 1911 he walked away from this girlfriend and when the tried to hold him back by grasping his sleeve, he turned and beat her to death with a fire extinguisher. Later that same day he killed a police officer at the local train station with the police officer's own gun.

In Cesar Milan terms, in my opinion this Muslim was a 'red zone dog', in other words a savage. Just because such people look human and pleasant does not mean that they are good people; that pleasantness is just the very thin layer of veneer that hides the evil in their hearts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Clearly there was a failure to imbue values appropriate to the society they were living in into these two thugs.

If values need to be imbued, then such people are born wrong - i.e. without a conscience - already.

People who are born with a conscience - though they may do bad things - are innately good already.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I find it amazing that he didn't feel able to share any of his inner feelings with the adults around him none of the adults - family, teachers trainers imans.

On the contrary, the evil indoctrination comes from their family and imams: it is called Islam.

< Message edited by Rule -- 4/20/2013 8:00:23 AM >

_____________________________

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"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 19

RE: Does it bother anyone else the Boston terrorist is 19? - 4/20/2013 7:59:35 AM

Baroana

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Everything about the Boston bombings bothers me.

Edited to add:

OP, if you think westerners can't be terrorists, check the history books.

< Message edited by Baroana -- 4/20/2013 8:04:40 AM >

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Post #: 20

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