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RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 10:42:26 AM   
unsafenonconsent


Posts: 15
Joined: 12/8/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Heh... I see your point and agree... for those who like to live without integrity (which drives directly to honor for me). I'm sorry but for me if I FEEL I respect someone then I show them that too because anything else:

a) cheats them of something they deserve and have earned.
b) makes me a man who has an inside and an outside (lacking in integrity & authenticity)

No... Carol has earned my respect and it is duly given to her as my own personal sense of honor demands.



I looked up honor in the dictionary and it said it was a characteristic used to make fools die for the amusement of their social superiors in meaningless wars. As for people having inside and outsides, that's true for everyone until you cut them open and the insides become the outsides. Snideness aside though, most people have a social face of some sort. Equating not playing with all your cards on the table to a lack of authenticity is a very simple viewpoint. Lacking in integrity I'll grant you, but if you'd ever been passed over for a job or rental because someone else lied, you'd realize how terribly overrated integrity really is. Honor makes for a poor companion when you're freezing in the snow. Most of us have to grow up eventually and choose expediency. It's nice that your life has been blessed enough for you to cling to such fairy tales.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 10:56:02 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: unsafenonconsent
I looked up honor in the dictionary and it said it was a characteristic used to make fools die for the amusement of their social superiors in meaningless wars.

Wow... just wow. A 32 year old decrying all possible value to the concept of "honor" -- and on a BDSM discussion board no less? Don't get me wrong, I believe in military glory about as much as I believe in singing pigs. That is not the only sort of "honor" there is.

Kind of interesting to me that you are a "dominant". So now, submissives who look to you are going to understand clearly that you are a man with no honor and no integrity and proud of it. I applaud your user name though. I absolutely agree that you are unsafe.

PS: You need a better dictionary.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 10:58:59 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I would argue that showing deferential regard is basically a protocol issue and that in most D/s situations would naturally be given to the top and denied the bottom.


That would all depend on the dynamic. Not all D/s relationships are based upon humiliation/degradation.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 11:00:59 AM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Is calling something someone said a huge crock of bullshit a violation of the TOS?

The concepts of integrity and living life with honor might be overrated and the stuff of fairy tales to some, but not everyone holds such little value in those concepts. For me, living life with honor and integrity might prove detrimental to me at times...but living a life of honor and integrity means more to me in the long run. Accidentally not being charged for something purchased at a store might be a "woo hoo, free shit" moment for some, but for me it means a trip back to the store to pay for it and set shit right.

Knowing I'm doing the right thing even when it costs me something is what makes me able to look at myself in the mirror and not become disgusted because I know I didn't sell out what I personally hold dear. That is what keeps me comfortable in my own skin. I'll take that deal every day of the week



< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 6/6/2013 11:41:46 AM >

(in reply to unsafenonconsent)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 11:18:41 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: unsafenonconsent

I looked up honor in the dictionary and it said it was a characteristic used to make fools die for the amusement of their social superiors in meaningless wars. As for people having inside and outsides, that's true for everyone until you cut them open and the insides become the outsides. Snideness aside though, most people have a social face of some sort. Equating not playing with all your cards on the table to a lack of authenticity is a very simple viewpoint. Lacking in integrity I'll grant you, but if you'd ever been passed over for a job or rental because someone else lied, you'd realize how terribly overrated integrity really is. Honor makes for a poor companion when you're freezing in the snow. Most of us have to grow up eventually and choose expediency. It's nice that your life has been blessed enough for you to cling to such fairy tales.


So living by a code, set of rules or morality and being consistent in the application is a fairy tale? A code of conduct/morality, that you build for yourself is not absolute and there will always be exceptions. The question always comes though, are they exceptions or excuses to not follow that code. If they are excuses then you have no integrity, if they are exceptions, then it is a reminder that not everything in life is absolute.

If your comments are your personal application concerning honor, then I am not sure if I am allowed to state a truthful opinion of you and your personal applications.

You seem to live by "if others do it then it is okay to do". That is the absence of a code, and a big telling factor into someone's character. Have fun with that.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to unsafenonconsent)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 11:59:51 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eroticbdsm161

They live and that is enough for me, for living is a tough task in itself, as humans want and need respect



Just because someone is human doesn't earn them my respect, hell that doesn't even guarantee my tolerance.

And as my gramps used to say, folks can want in one hand and shit in the other. It is worth the same.

< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 6/6/2013 12:00:37 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 12:52:44 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Oh no, more how I view myself.


Let me tell you how I view you through my interaction with you on the boards.

I respect your intellect
I respect your compassion
I respect your... temper....

If someone asked me...Do you respect tazzy without hesitation I would say yes.

If you handle yourself in your private life the same way as you conduct yourself here I would say you would demand and command respect. If someone was not giving it to you I believe they would be history...or should be.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/6/2013 12:54:04 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 12:57:17 PM   
unsafenonconsent


Posts: 15
Joined: 12/8/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I would argue that showing deferential regard is basically a protocol issue and that in most D/s situations would naturally be given to the top and denied the bottom.


That would all depend on the dynamic. Not all D/s relationships are based upon humiliation/degradation.





Indeed, but the point is deference. Deference implies superiority, regardless of humiliation or the absence thereof, many common protocols like calling the dominant Sir/Mistress/whatever and kneeling show deferential regard, even simple obedience could qualify.

Arguably, most people show respect for their employers, but it's a lucky few who actually feel respect for them. To Jeff that makes everyone else dishonorable liars. I don't much care what online folks want to think about me. If I did, I certainly wouldn't be posting here after all the evidence I've seen that most of the regulars are rule nazis with very narrow views of what the community should be. In fact, given that I originally started this profile for contacting people with interests in rape, abduction and/or Dolcett it's likely that the worse my reputation is among you folks the more creditable I am. But those of you jumping on the bandwagon had better look hard in the mirror. Do you really believe that you're a bad person if you don't fully disclose at all times? Really? Like you'll go to Hell if you lie or something? How incredibly quaint.

quote:


So now, submissives who look to you are going to understand clearly that you are a man with no honor and no integrity and proud of it.


One can only hope. Unfortunately, I doubt if many of the folks I'm interested in bother reading anything on the forums.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 1:08:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Indeed, but the point is deference. Deference implies superiority, regardless of humiliation or the absence thereof, many common protocols like calling the dominant Sir/Mistress/whatever and kneeling show deferential regard, even simple obedience could qualify.


Deference doesnt equate respect either, necessarily. And not all relationships require the act of kneeling. As far as calling a dominant a particular title, some do, some dont. Its not part of my dynamic.

quote:

Arguably, most people show respect for their employers, but it's a lucky few who actually feel respect for them.


Thats not respect. I dont have to respect them, I do have to work for them. They hold my paycheck, after all. Not all that much different than lords and ladies to a king or queen. No respect has to be felt, but it is required to be shown, at least publicly.

My question was more of a personal nature.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to unsafenonconsent)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 1:08:51 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: unsafenonconsent

Indeed, but the point is deference. Deference implies superiority, regardless of humiliation or the absence thereof, many common protocols like calling the dominant Sir/Mistress/whatever and kneeling show deferential regard, even simple obedience could qualify.


No the point is respect. You are not changing it to deference.

quote:


Arguably, most people show respect for their employers, but it's a lucky few who actually feel respect for them. To Jeff that makes everyone else dishonorable liars.


Being respectful, much like being civil or showing deference, is not the same as having respect. If that is what you came away with from Jeff's post, then indeed your values color your perception.

quote:


I don't much care what online folks want to think about me. If I did, I certainly wouldn't be posting here after all the evidence I've seen that most of the regulars are rule nazis with very narrow views of what the community should be. In fact, given that I originally started this profile for contacting people with interests in rape, abduction and/or Dolcett it's likely that the worse my reputation is among you folks the more creditable I am.


Looks like justification to me. I see many people use it, rather than address the issues and points of a discussion. It reflects back to how they feel about themselves, and they then must defend themselves, though they tend to do it in a detached method.

But those of you jumping on the bandwagon had better look hard in the mirror. Do you really believe that you're a bad person if you don't fully disclose at all times? Really? Like you'll go to Hell if you lie or something? How incredibly quaint.

quote:


One can only hope. Unfortunately, I doubt if many of the folks I'm interested in bother reading anything on the forums.


You can only hope? You mean that you hang out with folks that believe things like honor and integrity are fairy tales, and use their egos as justification to be who they are? Yeah I can see that.

The original question is, do you feel that the Top/Dom/etc is dues more respect than the bottom/sub/whatever ? Care to address the topic?


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to unsafenonconsent)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 1:09:53 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Oh no, more how I view myself.


Let me tell you how I view you through my interaction with you on the boards.

I respect your intellect
I respect your compassion
I respect your... temper....

If someone asked me...Do you respect tazzy without hesitation I would say yes.

If you handle yourself in your private life the same way as you conduct yourself here I would say you would demand and command respect. If someone was not giving it to you I believe they would be history...or should be.

Butch


I got to the temper part and scared the kittens, I laughed that hard!

Thank you for your post, it really did make me smile, even without the laugh.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 1:25:35 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		If you just take the definition of respect as having esteem for another then that esteem can apply to any side of a Dominant -Submissive relationship. Say for instance the submissive desires humiliation and the Dominant provides it then it is not the humiliation that is the determinant but the value and worth that it was provided. If the Dominant provides what the submissive desires then respect is given and taken even if it was NOT the desire of the Dominant...especially if it is not the desire. But of course it is hoped the desire is mutual.

Butch

PS... glad I gave you a smile... I meant what I said tazzy...I cannot imagine you not demanding respect...however you decide to define it.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/6/2013 1:29:03 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 1:44:09 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: unsafenonconsent
Arguably, most people show respect for their employers, but it's a lucky few who actually feel respect for them. To Jeff that makes everyone else dishonorable liars.

No, the world is not contained in blacks and whites. That's the viewpoint of a teenager not an adult. What I believe is that some people are more "their own man" than others. Some people are more "free". Others are more "enslaved". Some more the "wolf", others the "sheep". You can pick whatever words you want. I can tell you that it's important to know the difference when you interact with people because free people behave different than enslaved people.

One time at work I got an unfavorable performance review. In point of fact my manager was just making his quota numbers and I was new guy on the team. The very thing I'd been downgraded for I'd also won a very prestigious award for along with executive level "Thank yous". The situation was obviously fucked. My manager thought he was dealing with a slave. He thought I'd accept the review because "I had to". Instead, I listened to him. When he was done I calmly told him that he and I had a difference of opinion regarding my value as an employee so our business dealings were concluded. I resign effective immediately. That cost my company a lot of money and hassle in order to retain me which they were eventually able to do. It also either cost that manger his job or else played into it. As I said, it's important to know whether you are dealing with a free person or a slave.

I have made choices like that all my life. Because of that I am not nearly as rich or powerful or successful as I might be. But I am free. I belong to myself. That's worth it to me. So no, it's not that I was "lucky". Its that I have made choices and paid the prices for those choices. If you choose to select personal comfort over freedom that is your call. I do not fault you for it. I just think it means I need to interact with you as a slave rather than free (nod to Aswad and the Goreans in general for giving me that terminology).

My larger concern with your statements had to do with a total rejection of the concepts of honor and integrity. At this point I don't know what I think of that statement because I'm not convinced you know what either word means. But yes, both honor and integrity carry price tags... sometimes the price tag is death. Some people are willing to pay that price.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to unsafenonconsent)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 2:03:07 PM   
unsafenonconsent


Posts: 15
Joined: 12/8/2012
Status: offline
quote:


Thats not respect. I dont have to respect them, I do have to work for them. They hold my paycheck, after all. Not all that much different than lords and ladies to a king or queen. No respect has to be felt, but it is required to be shown, at least publicly.


Exactly and I would be inclined to agree. But let me go back to the dictionary definition that was posted.

1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.

The main reason I stated that it needed to be divided into two separate categories is that according to this definition both the feelings of respect you have for someone who has earned such a response and the artificial external act of showing deference are equally respect. It's important to clarify that we're talking about feelings and not actions.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 2:15:52 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		I just recently turned the big "three oh" Jeff... And while my ideas of whats honourable may differ from yours, I'd like to think that my opinion has some value despite me being a spring chicken.

A spring chicken with a receding hairline... What a world...

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 6/6/2013 2:26:32 PM >

_____________________________

530 DAYS

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 2:32:31 PM   
unsafenonconsent


Posts: 15
Joined: 12/8/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: unsafenonconsent
Arguably, most people show respect for their employers, but it's a lucky few who actually feel respect for them. To Jeff that makes everyone else dishonorable liars.

No, the world is not contained in blacks and whites.


I apologize for paraphrasing and will issue the following correction:
To Jeff that makes everyone else one of
quote:

those who like to live without integrity (which drives directly to honor for me).

because that makes them someone
quote:


who has an inside and an outside (lacking in integrity & authenticity)


Sort of cumbersome. I thought "dishonorable liars" was more elegant and made the substitution purely for reasons of style.

Are you objecting to a world of black and whites because you don't want to stand by your own words? Or is that too black and white for you? If I'm acting like a teenager and you're so much better than me, why is it that you keep responding to my posts? Oh, never mind. I'm looking at your post count and your join date and I've figured you out entirely. Good luck with all that.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 2:40:56 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: unsafenonconsent

quote:


Thats not respect. I dont have to respect them, I do have to work for them. They hold my paycheck, after all. Not all that much different than lords and ladies to a king or queen. No respect has to be felt, but it is required to be shown, at least publicly.


Exactly and I would be inclined to agree. But let me go back to the dictionary definition that was posted.

1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.

The main reason I stated that it needed to be divided into two separate categories is that according to this definition both the feelings of respect you have for someone who has earned such a response and the artificial external act of showing deference are equally respect. It's important to clarify that we're talking about feelings and not actions.


I wont comment on who posted it....

We are talking about both since we are discussing relationships of a personal nature.. not one you would have with your boss. So, yes, both feelings and actions would be a part of this level of "respect".

What may be respectful for one relationship may not matter in another. I dont really think getting into specific actions is necessary. Im sure what Carol and Jeff may determine for them, both in feelings and actions, are different in some ways than what works for me and the man I live with.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to unsafenonconsent)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 2:46:55 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		FR: I've been following this thread, but can only describe what I mean by respect via an example.

Prof A, young, brilliant, has many awards, papers, conferences, patents for his research. Although his intellect is respected, as a human being, he's considered a joke. He considers his students as nothing more than research fodder, and treats most people as if they are mere flies buzzing around his universe.

Prof B, retirement age, equally brilliant and equally well known for cutting edge research. Everyone, from undergrads, grad students, other profs, the janitor or the secretary, respect him. If he takes on responsibility, he sees it through. He treats everyone as an equal, always polite, always acknowledging someone's effort or work or achievement, never talking down to people. A sweetie who was great to work for, though he could be tough as nails when he had to be. He honored others, and so he was honored.



< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 6/6/2013 2:49:05 PM >

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 3:00:21 PM   
HaveWhipWillTrav


Posts: 122
Joined: 3/26/2013
Status: offline 		Depending on the situation. But I am going from a pure never met the person before perspective.

(in reply to TheLilSquaw)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Respect - 6/6/2013 3:02:09 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: unsafenonconsent
I'm looking at your post count and your join date and I've figured you out entirely. Good luck with all that.

OK, I just gotta ask because I'm dying of curiosity. What have you figured out from my join date and post count? What is it that I need "luck" with?

In the interests of full disclosure (and because I am a man of honor and integrity) does it change your calculations to know that I joined a few years before this account and there were a few thousand additional posts?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to unsafenonconsent)
Profile   Post #: 60
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