RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case.

RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (Full Version)

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angelikaJ -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 3:51:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DominantJ247 The one thing i don't like is the fact that now in florida this sets a precedence for being able to cap someone the moment you "feel threatened" i think out of all of it this is the biggest issue i have with the case. The way the Florida self defense statute is written and interpreted by the state appellate courts it is legal to kill someone simply because you feel threatened. The prosecution has an effectively insurmountable burden to disprove such a claim. Well, surprise surprise I don't agree with you. But frankly, I'm glad the law is as it is, and it won't be changing. As far as I'm concern a broken nose more than qualifies as a reason to cap your ass. So what if: when Martin threw the punch, Zimmerman went down and hit his head wrong. Died as a result of the accidental head trauma. Do you believe that Martin feeling afraid for his life (because a person unknown to him had been following him) would have been entitled to the same self-defense defense that Zimmerman had been? How do you know that the gun wasn't visible to Martin. If it was, does that change things?

angelikaJ -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 3:54:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And if the man is question has such impeccable ethics to never lie for a paycheck why did he accept the appointment to the commission at all? Every one even remotely associated with criminal justice issues in Texas must know the sordid history of Perry and the commission. And yet, you have no trouble taking the word of a medical examiner with over a decade of complaints about her ethics and competency, as long as she supports your narrative. wrong. I also have eyes and saw the photos of Zimmerman the night of the fight. Those were not injuries consistent with a vicious beating of the sort to make a reasonable person fear for their life. One more time you don't have to wait for brain matter on the ground to take action. No, but you do need to be in imminent danger and there is absolutely no evidence that shows that. No, as I understand it you only need to believe you are in imminent danger. Which means had Trayvon killed his armed pursuer that night, he should have been able to have made the same claim: it was self-defense.

Raiikun -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 3:55:38 PM)
Or more accurately, you need to believe you are in imminent danger, the danger need not be real. And being pinned to the ground, in that much pain, screaming for help, and unable too escape, that danger would certainly seem real enough. It's absurd to think that someone in that moment while screaming in pain for help, would be able to analyze that his many head injuries are not severe. And as O'Mara put it...how serious would the next injury have been...the one prevented by the shot? Because after all, you need no I juries at all to have a reasonable fear of imminent injury, especially in George's situation.

angelikaJ -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 4:55:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Or more accurately, you need to believe you are in imminent danger, the danger need not be real. And being pinned to the ground, in that much pain, screaming for help, and unable too escape, that danger would certainly seem real enough. It's absurd to think that someone in that moment while screaming in pain for help, would be able to analyze that his many head injuries are not severe. And as O'Mara put it...how serious would the next injury have been...the one prevented by the shot? Because after all, you need no I juries at all to have a reasonable fear of imminent injury, especially in George's situation. And that is the fundamental problem with the law, as it is written. Most of us know people in our lives who take things too personally: who take offense at being looked at the wrong way, when in reality it is just their perception. Most of us know someone who sees danger around every corner. And since the law revolves around perception and not reality, there is too much space for death due to misjudgment to occur.

Raiikun -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:01:34 PM)
That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w

angelikaJ -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:17:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w Being followed by a man who is unknown to you and is armed? I think that does qualify as legitimate fear of imminent injury or death.

BamaD -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:19:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w Being followed by a man who is unknown to you and is armed? I think that does qualify as legitimate fear of imminent injury or death. When did Martin find out that Zimmerman was armed? After he attacked.

DomKen -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:19:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Or more accurately, you need to believe you are in imminent danger, the danger need not be real. And being pinned to the ground, in that much pain, screaming for help, and unable too escape, that danger would certainly seem real enough. It's absurd to think that someone in that moment while screaming in pain for help, would be able to analyze that his many head injuries are not severe. And as O'Mara put it...how serious would the next injury have been...the one prevented by the shot? Because after all, you need no I juries at all to have a reasonable fear of imminent injury, especially in George's situation. Actually as I have repeatedly told you, Zimmerman's opinion in this matter is irrelevant. What matters is would a reasonable man who found himself in that same situation have feared his life was in imminent danger. The problem is that Zimmerman could not possibly have been facing a next blow and been desperately struggling to maintain control of a firearm he could not reach and Martin could not see if Zimmerman's story was true. Martin did not have that many arms. That is how anybody not blinded by bias knows Zimmerman was lying about the entire incident. More than likely it was Martin calling for help as he tried to keep the wannabe cop from shooting him after Zimmerman fell down from getting punched after he tried to put Martin in a come along.

angelikaJ -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:21:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w Being followed by a man who is unknown to you and is armed? I think that does qualify as legitimate fear of imminent injury or death. When did Martin find out that Zimmerman was armed? After he attacked. We don't know that for certain.

DomKen -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:21:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w Being followed by a man who is unknown to you and is armed? I think that does qualify as legitimate fear of imminent injury or death. When did Martin find out that Zimmerman was armed? After he attacked. According to the proven liar only. Since in Zimmerman's tall tale it is physically impossible for him to have reached his pistol he must be lying about what happened.

BamaD -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:22:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Or more accurately, you need to believe you are in imminent danger, the danger need not be real. And being pinned to the ground, in that much pain, screaming for help, and unable too escape, that danger would certainly seem real enough. It's absurd to think that someone in that moment while screaming in pain for help, would be able to analyze that his many head injuries are not severe. And as O'Mara put it...how serious would the next injury have been...the one prevented by the shot? Because after all, you need no I juries at all to have a reasonable fear of imminent injury, especially in George's situation. Actually as I have repeatedly told you, Zimmerman's opinion in this matter is irrelevant. What matters is would a reasonable man who found himself in that same situation have feared his life was in imminent danger. The problem is that Zimmerman could not possibly have been facing a next blow and been desperately struggling to maintain control of a firearm he could not reach and Martin could not see if Zimmerman's story was true. Martin did not have that many arms. That is how anybody not blinded by bias knows Zimmerman was lying about the entire incident. More than likely it was Martin calling for help as he tried to keep the wannabe cop from shooting him after Zimmerman fell down from getting punched after he tried to put Martin in a come along. Not only is there no proof of this, there is no evidence, there is not even a indication.

DomKen -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:32:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Or more accurately, you need to believe you are in imminent danger, the danger need not be real. And being pinned to the ground, in that much pain, screaming for help, and unable too escape, that danger would certainly seem real enough. It's absurd to think that someone in that moment while screaming in pain for help, would be able to analyze that his many head injuries are not severe. And as O'Mara put it...how serious would the next injury have been...the one prevented by the shot? Because after all, you need no I juries at all to have a reasonable fear of imminent injury, especially in George's situation. Actually as I have repeatedly told you, Zimmerman's opinion in this matter is irrelevant. What matters is would a reasonable man who found himself in that same situation have feared his life was in imminent danger. The problem is that Zimmerman could not possibly have been facing a next blow and been desperately struggling to maintain control of a firearm he could not reach and Martin could not see if Zimmerman's story was true. Martin did not have that many arms. That is how anybody not blinded by bias knows Zimmerman was lying about the entire incident. More than likely it was Martin calling for help as he tried to keep the wannabe cop from shooting him after Zimmerman fell down from getting punched after he tried to put Martin in a come along. Not only is there no proof of this, there is no evidence, there is not even a indication. Zimmerman's tale is internally contradictory therefore it must be untrue. He could not possibly have been pinned down with Martin straddling him with Martin's knees in his armpits, getting his head pounded into the pavement, had Martins hand covering his mouth to keep him from screaming and struggling to keep Martin from getting his pistol that should have been pinned under Zimmerman's body beyond either of their reach. That's Martin's two hands grabbing Zimmerman's head, another hand covering the mouth and at least another snaking under Zimmerman's body and pulling his pistol out that he had seen while Zimmerman's body laid on the ground blocking it from view for a grand total of at least 4 hands. Now I've double checked the autopsy and there is no indication of such a physical anomaly.

BamaD -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:39:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w Being followed by a man who is unknown to you and is armed? I think that does qualify as legitimate fear of imminent injury or death. When did Martin find out that Zimmerman was armed? After he attacked. We don't know that for certain. We have no indication otherwise. If Martin started a fight with a man with a gun he was a idiot.

Raiikun -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:40:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Or more accurately, you need to believe you are in imminent danger, the danger need not be real. And being pinned to the ground, in that much pain, screaming for help, and unable too escape, that danger would certainly seem real enough. It's absurd to think that someone in that moment while screaming in pain for help, would be able to analyze that his many head injuries are not severe. And as O'Mara put it...how serious would the next injury have been...the one prevented by the shot? Because after all, you need no I juries at all to have a reasonable fear of imminent injury, especially in George's situation. Actually as I have repeatedly told you, Zimmerman's opinion in this matter is irrelevant. What matters is would a reasonable man who found himself in that same situation have feared his life was in imminent danger. The problem is that Zimmerman could not possibly have been facing a next blow and been desperately struggling to maintain control of a firearm he could not reach and Martin could not see if Zimmerman's story was true. Martin did not have that many arms. That is how anybody not blinded by bias knows Zimmerman was lying about the entire incident. More than likely it was Martin calling for help as he tried to keep the wannabe cop from shooting him after Zimmerman fell down from getting punched after he tried to put Martin in a come along. Not only is there no proof of this, there is no evidence, there is not even a indication. This. Doesn't stop some people from buying into fabrications based off no evidence and hilariously poor understanding of the law though.

BamaD -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:41:42 PM)
I carry, my gun fell out of my pocket, by your reasoning anyone around me was then justified in attacking me.

Raiikun -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:43:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w Being followed by a man who is unknown to you and is armed? I think that does qualify as legitimate fear of imminent injury or death. When did Martin find out that Zimmerman was armed? After he attacked. According to the proven liar only. Since in Zimmerman's tall tale it is physically impossible for him to have reached his pistol he must be lying about what happened. We physically reenacted it. Getting the pistol was easy.

Raiikun -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:45:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w Being followed by a man who is unknown to you and is armed? I think that does qualify as legitimate fear of imminent injury or death. When did Martin find out that Zimmerman was armed? After he attacked. We don't know that for certain. We have no indication otherwise. If Martin started a fight with a man wit a gun he was a idiot. And the evidence is quite consistent in every respect that the gun was holstered until the last moment before firing, as a last resort after George screamed for help for nearly a minute.

DomKen -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:46:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w Being followed by a man who is unknown to you and is armed? I think that does qualify as legitimate fear of imminent injury or death. When did Martin find out that Zimmerman was armed? After he attacked. According to the proven liar only. Since in Zimmerman's tall tale it is physically impossible for him to have reached his pistol he must be lying about what happened. We physically reenacted it. Getting the pistol was easy. With someone's knees in your armpits, while pounding your head into the concrete with a hand covering your mouth and another hand trying to pull the pistol out of the holster pinned under your body? Really you reenacted that? Where did you find a human with 4 arms?

Raiikun -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 5:55:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun That is covered in the law too...it's not enough to 'see danger around every corner'...your fear of imminent death or great injury has to be reasonable. Which is why simply being followed would not justify use of deadly force, but being pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries does. Again, this is a must watch, as it shows why the SYG laws are reasonable, fair, and just. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnD34P2l1w Being followed by a man who is unknown to you and is armed? I think that does qualify as legitimate fear of imminent injury or death. When did Martin find out that Zimmerman was armed? After he attacked. According to the proven liar only. Since in Zimmerman's tall tale it is physically impossible for him to have reached his pistol he must be lying about what happened. We physically reenacted it. Getting the pistol was easy. With someone's knees in your armpits, while pounding your head into the concrete with a hand covering your mouth and another hand trying to pull the pistol out of the holster pinned under your body? Really you reenacted that? Where did you find a human with 4 arms? No reason to assume knees were in armpits, that doesn't match the forensics, nor is a four armed human needed.

DomKen -> RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. (7/21/2013 8:15:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun And the evidence is quite consistent in every respect that the gun was holstered until the last moment before firing, as a last resort after George screamed for help for nearly a minute. No physical evidence exists for either of those claims.

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