Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 9:53:16 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		One may also note that the Russians are making territorial claims to extend their exclusive economic zone deeper into the arctic in anticipation of an at least partially ice free ocean in order to exploit the suspected mineral and fisheries wealth there.

http://barentsobserver.com/en/arctic/2013/01/russia-submit-arctic-claims-years-end-24-01

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/16/russias-arctic-claims-neither-lost-nor-forgotten/

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 9/10/2013 9:55:07 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to leonine)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 10:00:24 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

One may also note that the Russians are making territorial claims to extend their exclusive economic zone deeper into the arctic in anticipation of an at least partially ice free ocean in order to exploit the suspected mineral and fisheries wealth there.

http://barentsobserver.com/en/arctic/2013/01/russia-submit-arctic-claims-years-end-24-01

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/16/russias-arctic-claims-neither-lost-nor-forgotten/



How's that working out for them?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 10:35:47 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

One may also note that the Russians are making territorial claims to extend their exclusive economic zone deeper into the arctic in anticipation of an at least partially ice free ocean in order to exploit the suspected mineral and fisheries wealth there.

http://barentsobserver.com/en/arctic/2013/01/russia-submit-arctic-claims-years-end-24-01

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/16/russias-arctic-claims-neither-lost-nor-forgotten/



How's that working out for them?

Did you bother to read the article?

If you had, you'd know that they are due to present their case to the United Nations for arbitration under the Law of the Sea Treaty within a couple of months.

The Heritage Foundation, which is well to the Right of center politically, seems to be quite alarmed.

"The United States has significant geopolitical and geo-economic interests in the High North, but the lack of policy attention and insufficient funding have placed the U.S. on track to abdicate its national interests in this critical region."

Lovely irony there as for the hearing and Russian claims to mean anything at all, the sea would have to remain ice free for significant periods otherwise, their claims would be useless.

So, here we have a RW blog fretting that the Russkies may get a jump on us because they're being proactive to climate change and we aren't.


< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 9/10/2013 10:37:34 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 10:47:24 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Oh fuck me....did you even glance at the original report before posting this link?

Do you feel really stupid now, by any chance?

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 11:59:13 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
The really funny thing, if you like gallows humour, is that while the likes of Shell and BP are sponsoring people to tell you that the arctic isn't melting, they are also pouring money into expeditions to drill for oil in sea areas which are ice free for the first time in recorded history. (And since people have been trying to sail past the Pole since the 15th Century, that's a lot of recorded history.) At least they're smarter than the politicians who actually believe their own propaganda.


That's an alarming thing for you to say, Leonine. Therefore you are an alarmist, therefore I don't have to take any notice of you.

(That was more gallows humour.)


_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to leonine)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 2:03:19 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/michaelschaus/2013/09/09/why-we-need-more-global-warming-n1694740

Things that make you say, "Hmmmm."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:03:16 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
The really funny thing, if you like gallows humour, is that while the likes of Shell and BP are sponsoring people to tell you that the arctic isn't melting, they are also pouring money into expeditions to drill for oil in sea areas which are ice free for the first time in recorded history. (And since people have been trying to sail past the Pole since the 15th Century, that's a lot of recorded history.) At least they're smarter than the politicians who actually believe their own propaganda.


That's an alarming thing for you to say, Leonine. Therefore you are an alarmist, therefore I don't have to take any notice of you.

(That was more gallows humour.)




Its also uneducated, as the northwest passage has been sailed several times before, notably 1903-1904, iirc. And the passage was navigable in 2000, 1978.... 1940.. 1942...

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/09/bad-reporting-about-northwest-passage.html



< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 9/10/2013 4:09:56 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:07:03 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Which proves that you need to keep the big money from messing with scientists.
The Catholic church of that era probably put science back 300 years.
ETA. Kinda what the fundies are trying to do right now.


Totally agree with that, Hill. 100%.



Perhaps. But they also were probably responsible for keeping knowledge and a scholastic tradition at all in the dark ages. People like the venerable bede copying books, making libraries.



(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:11:37 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Yeah, Copernicus was well before Galileo (who is listed on the Wiki as a supporter of Copernicanism), but I do believe he died, was killed, was martyred, for his heliocentric beliefs, no?

So far as I know, neither Copernicus not Galileo was killed.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:21:29 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The legend for that could easily also read:
1. Those who think the Earth is the center of the universe.
2. Galileo.

Only if one is is such a rush to be clever that he overlooks--or ignores?--a key part of the white type: "peer-reviewed climate articles."

As written, your number one is hugely broad. It includes butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers, many of whom were illiterate and totally unversed in science. Comparing that to scientific articles is big-time apples to oranges.

If your first group were "astronomers in Galileo's era who believed in a heliocentric universe," the comparison might hold some water.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:29:21 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

The legend for that could easily also read:
1. Those who think the Earth is the center of the universe.
2. Galileo.

Only if one is is such a rush to be clever that he overlooks--or ignores?--a key part of the white type: "peer-reviewed climate articles."
As written, your number one is hugely broad. It includes butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers, many of whom were illiterate and totally unversed in science. Comparing that to scientific articles is big-time apples to oranges.
If your first group were "astronomers in Galileo's era who believed in a heliocentric universe," the comparison might hold some water.


Inaccuracies of my example aside, you got my point.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:31:03 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Inaccuracies of my example aside, you got my point.

No. I think your "point" is bogus.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:40:19 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

Inaccuracies of my example aside, you got my point.

No. I think your "point" is bogus.


Really? I think you've read too much into it, DC. I'm not saying that AGW is the same as Earth-centric views of the universe. I'm saying that there are times when the "consensus" of opinions is wrong. Isn't that correct?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:46:07 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Really? I think you've read too much into it, DC. I'm not saying that AGW is the same as Earth-centric views of the universe. I'm saying that there are times when the "consensus" of opinions is wrong. Isn't that correct?

But you're ignoring the key question of the bases of those opinions. It's not surprising that unlettered, unscientific people held an opinion different from what Galileo concluded after using cutting-edge (for its time) technology. Comparing that opinion divide with the breakdown of research-based results in peer-reviewed journals is nonsense.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:51:17 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

Inaccuracies of my example aside, you got my point.

No. I think your "point" is bogus.


Really? I think you've read too much into it, DC. I'm not saying that AGW is the same as Earth-centric views of the universe. I'm saying that there are times when the "consensus" of opinions is wrong. Isn't that correct?


The geocentric model always had huge problems, see epicycles. The model just didn't fit the observations and many people spent a lot of time trying to make it fit. And it was never the scientific consensus. Several Greek astronomers posited a heliocentric model and the idea was commonplace outside of the Christian part of the world.

AGW on the other hand fits the data. It is the consensus of the scientists in the appropriate fields because if it is the only thing so far put forward that fits the data.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 4:52:10 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

Really? I think you've read too much into it, DC. I'm not saying that AGW is the same as Earth-centric views of the universe. I'm saying that there are times when the "consensus" of opinions is wrong. Isn't that correct?

But you're ignoring the key question of the bases of those opinions. It's not surprising that unlettered, unscientific people held an opinion different from what Galileo concluded after using cutting-edge (for its time) technology. Comparing that opinion divide with the breakdown of research-based results in peer-reviewed journals is nonsense.


I did acknowledge the inaccuracies of my example.

Yes. I was incorrect in my example.

The point, however, was made that scientific consensus isn't always right.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 5:13:56 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Its also uneducated, as the northwest passage has been sailed several times before, notably 1903-1904, iirc. And the passage was navigable in 2000, 1978.... 1940.. 1942...

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/09/bad-reporting-about-northwest-passage.html



Who is uneducated as well as not reading previous posts?

the first traverse of the northwest passage took 3 years. 1903-06 by Roald Amundsen.
They said he did it in 06 and forgot to mention that he started in '03.
Now, it's done every summer by dozens of amateurs in pleasure boats.

Your article was also incorrect stating that records have only been kept since 78. It was 72 that satellite records started being kept.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 9/10/2013 5:33:45 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/10/2013 5:24:01 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
the politicians who actually believe their own propaganda.

What makes you think that? I see them more as quite consciously and malevolently lying in order to manipulate us in order to gain/retain power. I gave up on thinking they were stupid quite some time ago. The "stupid" theory has too many holes in it.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to leonine)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 12:34:55 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Its also uneducated, as the northwest passage has been sailed several times before, notably 1903-1904, iirc. And the passage was navigable in 2000, 1978.... 1940.. 1942...

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/09/bad-reporting-about-northwest-passage.html



Who is uneducated as well as not reading previous posts?

the first traverse of the northwest passage took 3 years. 1903-06 by Roald Amundsen.
They said he did it in 06 and forgot to mention that he started in '03.
Now, it's done every summer by dozens of amateurs in pleasure boats.

Your article was also incorrect stating that records have only been kept since 78. It was 72 that satellite records started being kept.


Uh, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage

A few in 2012.
Perhaps a dozen in 2009, with two cruise ships

A cruise ship in 2007
A couple in 2003
one in 2001
The MS explorer (cruise ship) in 1984
Coast guard ship in 1957 (not an icebreaker)

A variety of steel hulled, and ice tolerant ships have made it in other years.

Point is, its not the first time the waters were navigable. I think the scarcity of points speaks more to a lack of desire and lack of attention previously than any real AGW trend.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 4:23:09 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


Uh, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage

A few in 2012.
Perhaps a dozen in 2009, with two cruise ships

A cruise ship in 2007
A couple in 2003
one in 2001
The MS explorer (cruise ship) in 1984
Coast guard ship in 1957 (not an icebreaker)

A variety of steel hulled, and ice tolerant ships have made it in other years.

Point is, its not the first time the waters were navigable. I think the scarcity of points speaks more to a lack of desire and lack of attention previously than any real AGW trend.


That's right. According to YOUR source, it has been traversed in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012.
That's every recent summer.

I said dozens of SAILORS, not ships. Please learn the difference.

Here's the point.

Explorers started looking for the NWP in 1497

They were blocked by ICE

Finally, one of the greatest polar explorers of all time made it in THREE YEARS because of, you guessed it, ice.

1n 69, a specially reinforced tanker made it thru with the help of FOUR icebreakers.

Now, recreational sailors make the trip for fun because there's less.....wait for it.....ice

The stuff that blocked human efforts and trade for over 5 centuries is now gone for a significant time every year.

I never said this is the first time the waters were navigable, that was technically the 03-06 trip

I said this is the first time that it is routinely navigable as seen by recreational sailors making the trip.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 9/11/2013 4:25:54 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109