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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 1:54:08 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You don't do a trip like that unless you're wealthy as hell. Fewer people are doing the NWP than Everest if you think about it as it's probably more expensive even though it's a hell of a lot safer.



Not wealthy as hell, but it won't be cheap either. Knowing the kinds of equipment one should have, perhaps 30-50K. My friends boat is for sale. Hmmmmm....


< Message edited by Yachtie -- 9/11/2013 1:56:28 PM >

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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 1:58:09 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		couldnt you steel sheet clad a boomalum viking for alot less money? Only needs the front quarter done.....and you still got a viking when done. (I was serious).

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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 1:58:37 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You don't do a trip like that unless you're wealthy as hell. Fewer people are doing the NWP than Everest if you think about it as it's probably more expensive even though it's a hell of a lot safer.



Not wealthy as hell, but it won't be cheap either. Knowing the kinds of equipment one should have, perhaps 30-50K. My friends boat is for sale. Hmmmmm....


I can only guess who you would choose for crew.

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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 2:04:57 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

couldnt you steel sheet clad a boomalum viking for alot less money? Only needs the front quarter done.....and you still got a viking when done. (I was serious).



I have a true story in my journal, about a Viking ship I saw.

I'd probably prefer an old thick hull Swan. Say about 46'. A trip like that would be incredible.

I really don't think anyone would want to do it in one of these - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Moragsoorm.jpg



< Message edited by Yachtie -- 9/11/2013 2:10:32 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 2:07:34 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I am not all that familiar with the ships, although I have seen aluminum hulled vikings and they are sweet, and I wish I owned a 60's chris craft constellation opulently 1960s fitted.

Never saw a swan nor know what it is. Must be a beaut.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/11/2013 2:08:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 2:26:34 PM   
Yachtie


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Back to climate change and the NWP. In morning discussions over coffee, my friend with the 34'er mentioned a book he'd read (can't remember the name) about a Chinese admiral who may have been sailing all over the Pacific way before anyone else was. There is supposedly, IIRC in Nova Scotia and not new by any standards, a strain of DNA pointing back to the Chinese. It is thought that he may have sailed the NWP.

here is a link that may be of interest.

This link points to another reference to Chinese on the east coast of Canada



< Message edited by Yachtie -- 9/11/2013 2:42:29 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 2:48:37 PM   
leonine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23964372
"Esa's Cryosat mission observes continuing Arctic winter ice decline"
"The volume of sea ice in the Arctic hit a new low this past winter, according to observations from the European Space Agency's (Esa) Cryosat mission.

During March/April - the time of year when marine floes are at their thickest - the radar spacecraft recorded just under 15,000 cu km of ice.

In its three years of full operations, Cryosat has witnessed a continuing shrinkage of winter ice volume.

It underlines, say scientists, the long-term decline of the floes.

Thirty years ago, there were perhaps 30,000 cu km at the height of winter.". . . Includes video computer animation of ice variation since Cryostat launched.

Related Stories (BBC News site)

Antarctic flood produces 'ice crater'
Cryosat observes big Arctic ice loss
Sea-level rise finally quantified



You're forgetting, the BBC is a state broadcaster, therefore part of the Great Conspiracy. Nothing they say can be believed, whereas amateurs sponsored by Texaco are absolutely reliable.

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It's there I'm gonna stay, until there comes a day when this old world starts a-changing for the good.
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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 4:00:57 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

here is a link that may be of interest.

This link points to another reference to Chinese on the east coast of Canada



The first article says there are rumors.

The second article says they might have been on the east coast but no evidence whether they took the NWP or went around the cape,

Lotta maybes and mights

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 4:32:01 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The first article says there are rumors.

The second article says they might have been on the east coast but no evidence whether they took the NWP or went around the cape,

Lotta maybes and mights


Of course. It's not like they kept meticulous records or anything. Most fables have some connection to some event or truth. Same goes for the fabled NWP. For all we know the Vikings made it to the west coast. But the fable points to that it existed, which means that it had been done.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/11/2013 5:31:35 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The first article says there are rumors.

The second article says they might have been on the east coast but no evidence whether they took the NWP or went around the cape,

Lotta maybes and mights


Of course. It's not like they kept meticulous records or anything. Most fables have some connection to some event or truth. Same goes for the fabled NWP. For all we know the Vikings made it to the west coast. But the fable points to that it existed, which means that it had been done.

There are fables about dragons stealing gold and slaves pulling thorns out of a lion's paw.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/12/2013 1:12:35 PM   
epiphiny43


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Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		Just a few studies, top one out today.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130912132130.htm Unprecedented Rate and Scale of Ocean Acidification Found in the Arctic
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130808091924.htm Three-Decade Decline in Reflectivity of Arctic Sea Ice
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090514083753.htm New Insight Into Decline Of Arctic Sea Ice Cover

The accusations scientific models are inaccurate have a few legs. Problem for the deniers is most adjustments so far have been for unanticipated or underestimated feedback factors. (Some Big adjustments!) With the better data of more exhaustive studies, the models get more accurate and More Threatening to life adjusted to the quite stable post-glaciation climate that human civilization developed under.
I don't see any field workers who actually visit the climatically interesting places questioning Global Warming. It's scientific illiterates sitting in computer chairs in air conditioned rooms. Or bought off/politically motivated theorists/Big Oil appologists embarrassing their colleagues. People walking around vanishing glaciers and measuring disappearing beaches or seeing whole different ecologies of life come up from the ocean in their traps and sample bottles have no such questions. They know something is happening and are trying to gain enough understanding for the human community to make better decisions for our future and the planet.

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/12/2013 2:54:25 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

Just a few studies, top one out today.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130912132130.htm Unprecedented Rate and Scale of Ocean Acidification Found in the Arctic
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130808091924.htm Three-Decade Decline in Reflectivity of Arctic Sea Ice
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090514083753.htm New Insight Into Decline Of Arctic Sea Ice Cover

The accusations scientific models are inaccurate have a few legs. Problem for the deniers is most adjustments so far have been for unanticipated or underestimated feedback factors. (Some Big adjustments!) With the better data of more exhaustive studies, the models get more accurate and More Threatening to life adjusted to the quite stable post-glaciation climate that human civilization developed under.
I don't see any field workers who actually visit the climatically interesting places questioning Global Warming. It's scientific illiterates sitting in computer chairs in air conditioned rooms. Or bought off/politically motivated theorists/Big Oil appologists embarrassing their colleagues. People walking around vanishing glaciers and measuring disappearing beaches or seeing whole different ecologies of life come up from the ocean in their traps and sample bottles have no such questions. They know something is happening and are trying to gain enough understanding for the human community to make better decisions for our future and the planet.

Which they don't do by falsifying data, and by pressuring journals to not run papers for science they don't agree with.

As for "more accurate" I wait with bated breath for you to post a creditable news post for an IPCC model that predicted the lack of global warming for the last 16 years.



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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/12/2013 3:33:11 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR -

Back to climate change and the NWP. In morning discussions over coffee, my friend with the 34'er mentioned a book he'd read (can't remember the name) about a Chinese admiral who may have been sailing all over the Pacific way before anyone else was. There is supposedly, IIRC in Nova Scotia and not new by any standards, a strain of DNA pointing back to the Chinese. It is thought that he may have sailed the NWP.

here is a link that may be of interest.

This link points to another reference to Chinese on the east coast of Canada



Zheng He was likely the admiral he was talking about. Some of the accounts seem a little exaggerated, 9 masted ships?, but he definitely existed and certainly did explore parts of the Pacific although his voyages don't seem to have lasted long enough for him to have sailed across the Pacific and back. Also most of the historical documents say he sailed west not east.

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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/12/2013 3:35:12 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
As for "more accurate" I wait with bated breath for you to post a creditable news post for an IPCC model that predicted the lack of global warming for the last 16 years.

Why would anyone since IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/12/2013 10:57:11 PM   
popeye1250


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Attachment (1)

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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/13/2013 8:27:51 AM   
Phydeaux


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Status: offline 		A huge chinese fleet sailed west to africa for sure, and then grounded the fleet and marched home. The chinese thinking was that there was nothing interesting outside china.

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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/13/2013 9:27:24 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		They say that Algore is now "Romney Rich" from fleecing the sheep.

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/13/2013 9:56:49 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Al Gore was 'Romney rich' (and in fact, far richer than Captain MagicUnderpants) way before you began malingering in the squids as a young zygote.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/13/2013 10:03:17 AM >

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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/13/2013 10:21:19 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

They say that Algore is now "Romney Rich" from fleecing the sheep.

"They?" Are you listening to the voices in your head again?

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RE: Majority of Scientists skeptical of climate crisis - 9/13/2013 9:19:15 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

They say that Algore is now "Romney Rich" from fleecing the sheep.

"They?" Are you listening to the voices in your head again?



Wow, when he's "poor" you defend him, when he gets rich from taking your money you defend him. When he shits down your gullet you'll defend him.
"Stockholm Syndrome."

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