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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No you do not have any idea what neoconservative means. Grab up a dictionary. He was always what he was a for lack of a better term, right leaning left winger.

He never changed his spots or his tune. Former Democrat St. Wrinklemeat was a neocon. Daniel Bell a neocon. Jesse Helms, Trent Lott, ELizabeth Dole, John Connolly, Condi Rice, Phil Gramm, Bill Bennett, Rick Perry, these are neocons, for example.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
How the fuck do you Moynihan was involved in these shutdowns? In detail.

Since you're not paying attention:

You said the neocons shut down the government in '95 and '96.

I said I don't think you can blame the neocons. Neocon is not a euphemism for republican. Moynihan was a neocon, for example.

So while there were perhaps a couple of dozen "neocons" in office - again I don't think you can accurately abscribe the shut down to an ideology; specifically to that ideology.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No you do not have any idea what neoconservative means. Grab up a dictionary. He was always what he was a for lack of a better term, right leaning left winger.

He never changed his spots or his tune. Former Democrat St. Wrinklemeat was a neocon. Daniel Bell a neocon. Jesse Helms, Trent Lott, ELizabeth Dole, John Connolly, Condi Rice, Phil Gramm, Bill Bennett, Rick Perry, these are neocons, for example.

And I think you should read his biography where he described himself as a neocon. Or the wiki, that does the same thing.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No you do not have any idea what neoconservative means. Grab up a dictionary. He was always what he was a for lack of a better term, right leaning left winger.

He never changed his spots or his tune. Former Democrat St. Wrinklemeat was a neocon. Daniel Bell a neocon. Jesse Helms, Trent Lott, ELizabeth Dole, John Connolly, Condi Rice, Phil Gramm, Bill Bennett, Rick Perry, these are neocons, for example.

And I think you should read his biography where he described himself as a neocon. Or the wiki, that does the same thing.

There were many people that came from the left that were neocons- in fact early on there were probably more leftists neoconst than rightists. Levi Strauss, wolfowitz, - it was one of the rare intersections of jewish politics and republican politics.

Things migrated more to the right in the 80s until now it is virtually synonymous with republican politics. Nearly synonymous but not accurately. The neocon branch of the republican party has receded over the last two elections and is being challenged by the libertarian branch of the party. And you still have the rump of country club republicans as well.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Speaking of Yosemite . . .

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What was meant to be a final gathering of heroes Tuesday instead became a final victory for dozens of World War II combat vets who refused to let the government's budget battle block a visit to their memorial in the nation's capital.

With bagpipers playing "Amazing Grace," nearly 200 veterans from Mississippi and Iowa swept past barricades and security guards at the World War II Memorial in Washington in order to keep a commitment to visit the site, which was closed today due to the partial government shutdown. The veterans, in their 80s and 90s, were accompanied by Rep. Steven Palazzo, R-Miss., a former Marine who earlier vowed not to let the National Park Police keep them from a planned visit to the open-air monument.

"For some reason, I just feel like royalty," Jim Ferencak, a Navy and Air Force veteran told GulfLive.com at the event.

"I’m not going to enforce the 'no stopping or standing' sign for a group of 90 World War II veterans. I’m a veteran myself.”
- U.S. Park Police officer

Some veterans on hand wiped away tears when they saw a crowd waving the American flag as they came out of their bus.

"These men and women didn't cower to the Japanese and Germans," Palazzo said. "I don't think they're about to let a few National Park Police stand in their way."

Palazzo, who was joined by several other members of Congress, moved the barricades at the memorial and police did not try to stop the veterans' access.

"I’m not going to enforce the 'no stopping or standing' sign for a group of 90 World War II veterans," a U.S. Park Police officer, who declined to give his name, told The Washington Post. “I’m a veteran myself.”

The veterans are traveling as part of Honor Flight, a program that enables World War II veterans to partake in an expense-paid trip to view the memorial. Tuesday's trip is the second-to-last flight, with the last scheduled for November. But prior to their arrival early Tuesday, there was fear that the government shutdown and federal worker furloughs would mean no access to the monuments on the National Mall.

But with lawmakers leading the charge, the American military heroes, some in wheelchairs, surged into the memorial.

"It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission," Palazzo said. “We lined the veterans up along the blockade, we saw an opening and we took it."

Joe Cleveland, of Union, Miss., told The Mississippi Press that he would "be thinking about the many battles that have been fought and thanking all those who were willing to go fight for our country."

Palazzo noted his grandfather, Manuel McCarty, served in World War II at Guadalcanal and Okinawa. Palazzo was 7 years old when his grandfather died and said he sees his grandfather in these veterans.

"I only have a couple of memories of my grandfather," said Palazzo, who has taken part of Honor Flights before. "But each time I see these men, I envision how he'd be."

Congressman Bill Huizenga, of Michigan, told GulfLive.com that "this is the best civil disobedience we've seen in Washington in a while."

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, hardly the biography, because he wouldn't describe himself as that, that would be an autobiography.

Now while he has written many books, they were not about himself, (in other words, no autobiographies) they were policy books, and not having read every one you would have to point me to the book, and the page.

There are no biographies of which I am aware.

And even William F. Buckley was rather awed by his vocabulary, and punctilious speech. Since the word was coined circa 1973, and has never changed in its meaning, I believe the world would know if he were to misuse or abuse such a word, and it would be bigger news and eclipse the current government shutdown.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, hardly the biography, because he wouldn't describe himself as that, that would be an autobiography.

Now while he has written many books, they were not about himself, (in other words, no autobiographies) they were policy books, and not having read every one you would have to point me to the book, and the page.

There are no biographies of which I am aware.

And even William F. Buckley was rather awed by his vocabulary, and punctilious speech. Since the word was coined circa 1973, and has never changed in its meaning, I believe the world would know if he were to misuse or abuse such a word, and it would be bigger news and eclipse the current government shutdown.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

This IS our legislative process, Graceadieu. The White House and Reid/Pelosi will blame, the media will repeat, and the Obamabots will bleat the chants they are given, but the House holds the power of the purse, and they are doing the job they were sent to do. Elections have consequences. Who was it that said that?

As someone who believes we would be much better off as a society with less government involvement in our daily lives, what I hope we get from this are a hell of a lot of people who realize that life goes right along without it.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I think it is going to be a question of who does what. The ones who get hurt won't matter a bit to either side, except as props and bludgeons. The President refuses to budge or compromise - spending bills must come from the House.

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If the Republicans are willing to take the heat, and the media heat(hate) will be intense, then the President is going to have to back down and negotiate.

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Elections do have consequences. The President and the Dem majority in the Senate were elected to enact the Democratic agenda, which they have attempted to do.

Both houses of Congress voted to pass this law. The President signed it. It passed. That's the normal legislative process in this country. Some of the GOP wanted it repealed, so they tried the normal routes. They held, what, 41 votes in the House to try and repeal it, and failed every time. That's, well, a little ridiculous, but also part of our legislative process. They even took it to the Supreme Court, who ruled it constitutional. That's also part of our governmental process.

The Republicans could not get the law voted down, and they could not get it repealed, and they could not get it declared unconstitutional, using the processes our Constitution and Founding Fathers laid down. So instead, they held the functioning of the federal government hostage, shutting the government down because the Senate wouldn't stop the law. That's not part of our legislative process. At all. By any means.

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ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

This IS our legislative process, Graceadieu. The White House and Reid/Pelosi will blame, the media will repeat, and the Obamabots will bleat the chants they are given, but the House holds the power of the purse, and they are doing the job they were sent to do. Elections have consequences. Who was it that said that?

As someone who believes we would be much better off as a society with less government involvement in our daily lives, what I hope we get from this are a hell of a lot of people who realize that life goes right along without it.

Elections do have consequences. The President and the Dem majority in the Senate were elected to enact the Democratic agenda, which they have attempted to do.

Both houses of Congress voted to pass this law. The President signed it. It passed. That's the normal legislative process in this country. Some of the GOP wanted it repealed, so they tried the normal routes. They held, what, 41 votes in the House to try and repeal it, and failed every time. That's, well, a little ridiculous, but also part of our legislative process. They even took it to the Supreme Court, who ruled it constitutional. That's also part of our governmental process.

The Republicans could not get the law voted down, and they could not get it repealed, and they could not get it declared unconstitutional, using the processes our Constitution and Founding Fathers laid down. So instead, they held the functioning of the federal government hostage, shutting the government down because the Senate wouldn't stop the law. That's not part of our legislative process. At all. By any means.