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RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 5:04:22 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

...... Y'all are crazy.

Bat shit crazy I would say.... But I am sure their is a more clinical term for the affliction ;)

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 61

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 5:05:17 PM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I'd certainly kick in something, but not as much as I do, especially now that my status is that of an independent contractor with negligible deductions.

I think a discussion of "proper taxation" is outside the scope of this thread. But it remains true that I did not submit to the IRS. I honored my obligations until I didn't want to any longer. Then I took the required steps to change things.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Post #: 62

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 5:11:05 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
If you are trying to boil dominance (master of my domain)

That note eloquently states how i view "dominance".

I saw that... And what flashed in my head was the genie (voice by Robin Williams) in the Disney show 'Aladdin' Stating.

" itty bitty living space". ;)

I really need a bigger abode...

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 63

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 5:13:13 PM

TNDommeK

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I love that movie!!!!!!!
Ahem, sorry got excited. Carry on.

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Post #: 64

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 5:15:01 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

I love that movie!!!!!!!
Ahem, sorry got excited. Carry on.

Oooooh thatsssss. Ok.... I ummm really like it when you get um excited. ;)

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Post #: 65

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 5:15:30 PM

TNDommeK

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Lol. Awesome! That happens a lot!!

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Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 66

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 6:08:19 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
If you are trying to boil dominance (master of my domain)

That note eloquently states how i view "dominance".

the balls out truth about dominance is that if you can't kick (or kill) everyone's ass in the room, you are not going to be on top when it's Lord of the Flies time.
Yup agreed. Now that us humans build such huge packs the idea that I am "the dominant" or anywhere near there seems rather ridiculous. I'm "more dominant than most" which is enough, in my mind, to wear the "dominant" label. Also, if we're talking about dominance at this level it's worth noting that it's not a static thing. Pack positions change for a variety of reasons.

I hear ya' on that one. I don't know if it is because I was raised in a rough city, my dominant nature, my survival instinct or probably a combination of all, but I have an acute awareness for every environment I enter be it a store, restaurant or etc, everyone is instantly analyzed and divide into groups. The groups are those that would be survivors and those that wouldn't be survivors if it was it was Lord of the Flies time . . . and for those deemed survivors, are they someone I would have concerns about competing or fighting with?

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Post #: 67

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 6:08:49 PM

petitespot

Posts: 288
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From: Surfside Beach, SC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

To be a Master, one must be in control of oneself. If one is in control of oneself, one should be able to submit to another if one wishes. If one cannot submit to another, how can one ever be a Master? It seems to me that perhaps one must submit at some point on the journey to being a Master.

But I do not think I can. Domly Doms consider that a badge of honor. Is it actually a flaw?

I'm gonna assume you mean within a relationship and not with the tax and surgery examples being thrown around in the thread. Those fall into playing by the rules of life to me.
Anywho...
The notion that you need to experience submission in order to be a master is a crock and an ploy to not fess up and admit that you're (general you're) a switch. Nothing wrong with that at all.
But call it what it is because unless you're hardwired to be submissive or dominant, playing the part ain't gonna show you anything that occurs within the mind.
Smash your finger with a hammer. There's pain for you. What did it teach you other than it fucking hurt.

< Message edited by petitespot -- 10/3/2013 6:13:49 PM >

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RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 6:16:01 PM

ResidentSadist

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

If you are trying to boil dominance (master of my domain) down to a something measurable, the balls out truth about dominance is that if you can't kick (or kill) everyone's ass in the room, you are not going to be on top when it's Lord of the Flies time.

Do I like the old guard (gay) system of going through the ranks starting as submissive and learning before you finally get your cap and become a Master . . . yes I like it. It makes for a much better educated class of Masters. In fact, in a group like that, you will never see the dumb ass shit about protocols, labels and definitions like you see in the hetro world.

Outside of the human world, in the animal kingdom, there is noting that agrees with learning dominance through submission. In fact, it is quite the reverse in that dominants start out that way, even as early as behavior in the womb. Yes, some of our animal friends truly are "natural born dominants".

I came up the old fashioned way and would meet the criteria, but I still do not agree with the OP.

This resonates with me strongly, as have many of your posts. Any chance you're interested in mentoring someone from Tampa? :)

I hope the day never comes that I feel I am finally smart enough to stop learning and start teaching. I fear that will be the day all the fun has gone out of it for me. I am always glad to stop and share my perspectives though.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to SerWhiteTiger)

Post #: 69

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 6:34:58 PM

SerWhiteTiger

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LOL, what is owning a slave but teaching? ;)

< Message edited by SerWhiteTiger -- 10/3/2013 6:35:08 PM >

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 70

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 8:32:39 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

LOL, what is owning a slave but teaching? ;)

Learning.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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(in reply to SerWhiteTiger)

Post #: 71

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 8:41:38 PM

Aynne88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I definitely don't need a master who has experienced being a sub.

agree totally.

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Post #: 72

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 9:42:05 PM

switchblademoi1

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/3/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

To be a Master, one must be in control of oneself. If one is in control of oneself, one should be able to submit to another if one wishes. If one cannot submit to another, how can one ever be a Master? It seems to me that perhaps one must submit at some point on the journey to being a Master.

But I do not think I can. Domly Doms consider that a badge of honor. Is it actually a flaw?

I am not a fan of sweeping generalizations or "this is the only way it must be for everyone." But it could that your need to ask this question might suggest there is some issue you need to work on.

(in reply to SerWhiteTiger)

Post #: 73

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 10:48:38 PM

SerWhiteTiger

Posts: 437
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From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: switchblademoi1

quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

To be a Master, one must be in control of oneself. If one is in control of oneself, one should be able to submit to another if one wishes. If one cannot submit to another, how can one ever be a Master? It seems to me that perhaps one must submit at some point on the journey to being a Master.

But I do not think I can. Domly Doms consider that a badge of honor. Is it actually a flaw?

I am not a fan of sweeping generalizations or "this is the only way it must be for everyone." But it could that your need to ask this question might suggest there is some issue you need to work on.

Uhm... that's the whole point of asking questions?

(in reply to switchblademoi1)

Post #: 74

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 10:50:21 PM

SerWhiteTiger

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I suspect the Old Guard system was more about weeding out the posers than any actual need to learn submission. It was just something I've been thinking about this week.

(in reply to SerWhiteTiger)

Post #: 75

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/3/2013 11:14:45 PM

sexyred1

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I don't agree with comparing D/s to life issues like taxes, medical issues, the court system, etc.

That is just silly and not comparable at all.

If you feel threatened by having to submit to things that we all need to do, then you have some boundary issues.

My sex life, which involves submission is entirely different than what I need to do in daily life.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 10/3/2013 11:15:12 PM >

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Post #: 76

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/4/2013 3:45:52 AM

SaffronDuchess

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Joined: 9/27/2013
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Chatteparfaitt posted some of my thoughts on this topic. In the dark ages (prior to a widely accessible internet) when organized BDSM was synonymous with the gay leather community, you had to be incredibly lucky or part of a real-life community to find like-minded people. And most of them didn't take you in on your word alone. You had to build a reputation and you did so by being known or apprenticing / submitting to the established member. But honestly I don't know what femDoms did. I suppose they relied on word of mouth but I don't think they had to build a reputation by submitting first.

So I agree with Chatteparfaitt that it's a leather thing.

Nowadays people actually can get information without ever interacting with others and they can also build their skills, however, to be an acknowledge master you do need a community that does the acknowledging and that will only happen after you prove yourself. But I don't think you need to do it by submitting, especially outside of the leather community. You do it by proving yourself a sane, good person with a great skill set and compassion.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 77

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/4/2013 4:02:17 AM

kiwisub12

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One thought is that any one can be a "Dom" or a "Master". And you can be one in a relationship that doesn't go past your own four walls. You just declare yourself one. No-one else has to agree with what you mean by that word, or words. If your definition of Master means that you are able to put your pants on one leg at a time , then very probably , you are a Master.

My late dom said that he made the rules BECAUSE he was the dominant in our relationship - and those rules didn't take input from outside. I didn't call him Master, because he wanted to be called Sir - and did that make him less in my eyes than if I called him Master? Oh hell no.

It's a word, and for us, a word that we didn't use. He was my master and my Sir, and that was enough for us. We didn't need validation from anyone else. And really, if you think about it, how dominant are you really, if you need the stamp of approval from someone outside of your relationships? Its not as if there is an agreed upon definition of ANY of the descriptive words that get tossed around whenever a group of like minded people get together. Each of us gets to redefine our relationship titles everytime we enter into one.

ps. I was musing about this and there are very few defining boundaries for any relationship - take "marriage". There is a very broad definition, which in some countries is getting broader every year, but for how one actually works - the day-to-day minutae, there is no one rule. We make it up from ourselves and what we observed from people around us, I rather think most relationships are this way. Rigid in concept, but fluid in actuality.

(in reply to SaffronDuchess)

Post #: 78

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/4/2013 6:02:06 AM

Rochsub2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AaNiMaLl

My slave and I invent the game and are not bound by any rules.

This is how I view things as well. D/s and BDSM are individual endeavors (IMHO), so the only opinions that matter are those of the parties involved. That's why there is no formalized designation of "Master" in my world. To me, if someone wants to be called Master, that's between them and their partner. But I do recognize that some people come from leather groups, or "old guard" backgrounds where such titles are much more formalized. I don't have the data to prove it, but I surmise that those people are now a very small minority relative to the entire kink universe. But to them, those titles aren't taken lightly.

The real problem (IMO) is that the terms mean different things to different people, so these always end up being "apples and oranges" discussions.

(in reply to AaNiMaLl)

Post #: 79

RE: Can a Dom who can't submit ever be a Master? - 10/4/2013 6:12:26 AM

Rochsub2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I don't agree with comparing D/s to life issues like taxes, medical issues, the court system, etc.

That is just silly and not comparable at all.

If you feel threatened by having to submit to things that we all need to do, then you have some boundary issues.

I agree. As I was reading White Tiger's declaration that he has never submitted to anyone, I wasn't impressed by how "domly" he is. Rather, I found myself thinking that he is a sociopath with an over-inflated ego. We ALL submit. Whether it's to parents, bosses, teachers, laws, police officers, etc., we ALL submit. Whether we do so willingly or not is immaterial. When you see the flashing red & blue lights in your rearview mirror, you pull over. Otherwise, you'll be submitting behind bars (though probably not willingly). Arguments to the contrary are just silly (IMO).

ETA: That's not a personal attack against SerWhiteTiger, and I apologize if it came off as such. I don't know him, and I've had few interactions with him on CM. My comment was generic in nature, and refers to ANYONE who thinks they've never submitted.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 10/4/2013 6:19:18 AM >

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 80

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