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RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 9:28:22 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

What a moronic response!

The people putting ideology before human lives are those opposing a healthcare initiative that will cover almost all Americans, an initiative that will hopefully prevent any more of the c 50,000 unnecessary premature deaths that have occurred every year in the US prior to its introduction.



So, you're saying that the national healthcare initiative, even single payer, is not based on Democrat ideology?

Fascinating

I'm not saying anything of the sort and would be grateful if you desisted from openly trying to twist the meaning of my post thank you.

My understanding is that Obamacare is based on Mitt Romney's REPUBLICAN Healthcare Scheme introduced when Romney was a State Governor. So nothing like your comical attempt to twist the meaning of my post, which clearly identified the ideologues in this matter as those opposing Obamacare.



Mitt may be a Republican, but that is irrelevant to the leftist ideology behind socializing medicine. By your standard, Hillary Clinton's once attempt into socializing healthcare makes her a Republican.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 9:46:53 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I take it you would rather die than take socialism huh


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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 9:50:37 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

What a moronic response!

The people putting ideology before human lives are those opposing a healthcare initiative that will cover almost all Americans, an initiative that will hopefully prevent any more of the c 50,000 unnecessary premature deaths that have occurred every year in the US prior to its introduction.



So, you're saying that the national healthcare initiative, even single payer, is not based on Democrat ideology?

Fascinating

I'm not saying anything of the sort and would be grateful if you desisted from openly trying to twist the meaning of my post thank you.

My understanding is that Obamacare is based on Mitt Romney's REPUBLICAN Healthcare Scheme introduced when Romney was a State Governor. So nothing like your comical attempt to twist the meaning of my post, which clearly identified the ideologues in this matter as those opposing Obamacare.



Mitt may be a Republican, but that is irrelevant to the leftist ideology behind socializing medicine. By your standard, Hillary Clinton's once attempt into socializing healthcare makes her a Republican.



Explain to me what socializing medicine means, cuz it really is an empty phrase tossed of by nutsackers without a clue. Nutsackers have socialized the corporations and the military, and resulting military-industrial complex, but other than that............

I guess it is irrelevant that nutsackers are socializing the economy with borrow and spend and debt.

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(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 10:19:36 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		socialising healthcare..... means anything that isnt american or provides healthcare via taxes or other government interference?

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 10:32:29 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

What a moronic response!

The people putting ideology before human lives are those opposing a healthcare initiative that will cover almost all Americans, an initiative that will hopefully prevent any more of the c 50,000 unnecessary premature deaths that have occurred every year in the US prior to its introduction.



So, you're saying that the national healthcare initiative, even single payer, is not based on Democrat ideology?

Fascinating

I'm not saying anything of the sort and would be grateful if you desisted from openly trying to twist the meaning of my post thank you.

My understanding is that Obamacare is based on Mitt Romney's REPUBLICAN Healthcare Scheme introduced when Romney was a State Governor. So nothing like your comical attempt to twist the meaning of my post, which clearly identified the ideologues in this matter as those opposing Obamacare.



Mitt may be a Republican, but that is irrelevant to the leftist ideology behind socializing medicine. By your standard, Hillary Clinton's once attempt into socializing healthcare makes her a Republican.



Explain to me what socializing medicine means, cuz it really is an empty phrase tossed of by nutsackers without a clue. Nutsackers have socialized the corporations and the military, and resulting military-industrial complex, but other than that............

I guess it is irrelevant that nutsackers are socializing the economy with borrow and spend and debt.



The prattle of the clueless. Music to my ears.

Is it true the clueless taste like chicken?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 1:33:31 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
What a moronic response!
The people putting ideology before human lives are those opposing a healthcare initiative that will cover almost all Americans, an initiative that will hopefully prevent any more of the c 50,000 unnecessary premature deaths that have occurred every year in the US prior to its introduction.

"Premature?"
At what point do we make the determination that a death is no longer "premature?" How is that determined? Who gets to make that call?

Under the current system, the insurance companies. You used to say that people die when their time runs out: now they die when the insurance runs out.


Obviously, tweak agrees with that, but that doesn't answer my question.

Is it ever okay to stop treating someone?

How do we determine what is "premature" and what isn't?

Is it the same for everyone, or not?




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to leonine)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 3:08:45 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

"We all know what happens when ideology is given precedence over human life - the door to totalitarianism - the very thing you claim to oppose so vehemently - is opened widely."


That would be unsubstantiated opinion.
I have often noticed that statements that begin with "we all know xyz" are about things that no one knows to be true...but it is considered by the ignorant to be a useful device to assign credibility to their bullshit opinion.

actually NOOO we all know that totalitarism is when all RIGHTS are suspended, yanno for OUR OWN GOOD!

Which particular rights have been suspended?

hey lets suspend free speech cause I might say something that offends you and you could get depressed and commit suicide...


Try using free speech in an unaproved fashion and you will find out just how much free speech one has. This is not something new. Preaching sedition is a criminal offense and not considered free speech where as lying to a cop is now protected speech.


(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 3:21:02 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


What idiocy. Everyone lives. Everyone dies. The question is: can you compel me to shorten my life to make yours longer.


No one has sugested that.


Time and time again - socialism has been tried.

The police,fire and public services are socialized as in they are typically owned by the govt and have no competition by law.



Time and time again it has failed.


I saw a fire truck on my way home from costco this morning so I think you may be mistaken. Socialism seems to be alive and well.


Why do you think the Chinese, the soviets, hell even the Europeans are moving away from socialiasm.


Any evidence that this ignorant opinion is anything other than ignorant opinion?




(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 3:23:53 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

"Premature?"

At what point do we make the determination that a death is no longer "premature?" How is that determined? Who gets to make that call?



If this is a serious question then I would suggest consulting a physician.
Otherwise this is nothing more than an attempt at the arguement of the absurd...which is the tool of those with nothing to contribute to a discussion.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 4:58:51 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
What a moronic response!
The people putting ideology before human lives are those opposing a healthcare initiative that will cover almost all Americans, an initiative that will hopefully prevent any more of the c 50,000 unnecessary premature deaths that have occurred every year in the US prior to its introduction.


"Premature?"

At what point do we make the determination that a death is no longer "premature?" How is that determined? Who gets to make that call?


I would suggest that the consultants making such a claim know a tad about premature deaths and possible preventions. I am sorry that doesnt fit your arguments.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 6:26:40 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
What a moronic response!
The people putting ideology before human lives are those opposing a healthcare initiative that will cover almost all Americans, an initiative that will hopefully prevent any more of the c 50,000 unnecessary premature deaths that have occurred every year in the US prior to its introduction.

"Premature?"
At what point do we make the determination that a death is no longer "premature?" How is that determined? Who gets to make that call?

Under the current system, the insurance companies. You used to say that people die when their time runs out: now they die when the insurance runs out.


Obviously, tweak agrees with that, .... [snip]



Could you please tell me what it is I am agreeing to (coz I don't know)?

(This is just in case any one asks, I don't want to make you look silly)

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/26/2013 6:30:05 PM >

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 8:13:43 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
What a moronic response!
The people putting ideology before human lives are those opposing a healthcare initiative that will cover almost all Americans, an initiative that will hopefully prevent any more of the c 50,000 unnecessary premature deaths that have occurred every year in the US prior to its introduction.

"Premature?"
At what point do we make the determination that a death is no longer "premature?" How is that determined? Who gets to make that call?

Under the current system, the insurance companies. You used to say that people die when their time runs out: now they die when the insurance runs out.

Obviously, tweak agrees with that, .... [snip]

Could you please tell me what it is I am agreeing to (coz I don't know)?
(This is just in case any one asks, I don't want to make you look silly)


You have a hard time following a conversation?

You make a claim about deaths that are "premature."

I asked about how we determine that a death is no longer "premature."

Leonine responded that it's insurance companies that currently make that determination. That is, the insurance company decides (by not covering services, denying coverage, and/or dropping people from coverage).

How would you answer my questions posed to you?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 10:47:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Obviously, tweak agrees with that, but that doesn't answer my question.

Is it ever okay to stop treating someone?

How do we determine what is "premature" and what isn't?

Is it the same for everyone, or not?


Premature is when the physicians determine it to be. Premature if dying from a disease process that is easily curable if treated.

Is it ever ok? Sure, when the patient decides they have had enough. When the physicians determine nothing more can be done. It should NOT be based upon what a limit has been reached.

Is it the same for everyone? Of course not. End stage renal failure can run different courses. Magic Johnson has lived how long with HIV?

What IS premature? A woman in her 40's diagnosed with early stages of breast cancer but no money for treatment. A man with prostate cancer but no way to diagnose because he cant get treated due to lack of insurance/money.

I could go into a long list, but the only common denominator is lack of insurance/money. If you have enough money, you dont need the insurance. If you have the insurance, you might be able to afford the co-pay with little money. Without either, you receive no treatment and chances are you will die prematurely.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/26/2013 11:38:03 PM   
NoBimbosAllowed


Posts: 1450
Joined: 9/19/2013
Status: offline 		if an Australian is not LIV ING in the USA and thus having to worry about this, it's lobbing balls into the court from off court.

Thus, fair is fair, and fair to lob "Pink Batts" in here. Was it lobbed into the other thread? Yes. Does that diminish why it applies here if any Australian who likes the way the Left manages things comments here, on USA health matters? no.


whoops!

Furthermore, if Aussies want to weigh in on this, let's look at facts that the Australian version of NPR and PBS never denies: the quality and efficacy of Healthcare, as it APPLIES, PHYSICALLY, to any patient, pretty much begins and ends with what kind of nurses you get, and HOW MANY nurses you get.

So before anyone gets into any to-and-fro with anyone from Australia over this, on the right or the left, ask them HOW MANY NURSES got the fucking shaft under the previous two Left Federal Admins, and the previous term of the Right Administration.


because the STRIKES and PROTESTS of the nurses around NSW and elsewhere are "the Tale of the Tape".


_____________________________

It's all about the curvature of the female azzzzzzzzzzz, meaning Niki Minaj and Serena Williams and Kate Cerebrano, NEVER Kylie Minogue! Wooden Spoons and Ottoman scenes from Story of O, baby dolls!

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/27/2013 12:01:42 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Amazingly enough, 1994 I saw a huge increase in pay as a nurse. I never once entered a strike as a nurse. I never unionized as a nurse. I am not saying they are not needed. Nor am I saying nurse to patient ratios need to be looked at hard. But for the US it all comes back to profit margin. Meds cost more because of advertising and corporate profits. Insurance companies are now running hospitals. Med supplies are more and more expensive, with many insurance companies having a hand in that. In fact, I cant think of a single health care related industry that doesnt have a "strong" partnership with an insurance company.

I have been warning all along that the aim of the ACA wasnt for insurance company profits. Was this what I wanted? Nope. I dont feel it went near far enough. But its a step in the right direction.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NoBimbosAllowed)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/27/2013 12:07:49 AM   
NoBimbosAllowed


Posts: 1450
Joined: 9/19/2013
Status: offline 		I agree with my heart with what you posted, but I must say that the USA must, since the Obamacare system is not yet in place, take advantage of the mistakes made by other countries, take note of them, and avoid them.

_____________________________

It's all about the curvature of the female azzzzzzzzzzz, meaning Niki Minaj and Serena Williams and Kate Cerebrano, NEVER Kylie Minogue! Wooden Spoons and Ottoman scenes from Story of O, baby dolls!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/27/2013 12:24:22 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

At what point do we make the determination that a death is no longer "premature?" How is that determined? Who gets to make that call?

Under the current system, the insurance companies. You used to say that people die when their time runs out: now they die when the insurance runs out.

Obviously, tweak agrees with that, .... [snip]

Could you please tell me what it is I am agreeing to (coz I don't know)?
(This is just in case any one asks, I don't want to make you look silly)


I asked about how we determine that a death is no longer "premature."
Leonine responded that it's insurance companies that currently make that determination. That is, the insurance company decides (by not covering services, denying coverage, and/or dropping people from coverage).
How would you answer my questions posed to you?


Thank you for telling me what I think DS! Tazzygirl has already answered your question eloquently.

Here's my far less eloquent response, bearing in mind that I agree with everything tazzy stated. A "premature" death in this context is a death that could have been prevented if the victim had access to healthcare that would would have prevented the death but is denied access for non-healthcare reasons such as lack of insurance cover. In practice that works out pretty much along the lines Leonine and tazzy described - private insurance death panels determining who gets treatment, or the victim not accessing services for fear of the financial consequences, or because they knew no insurer would cover the costs of their treatment.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/27/2013 12:30:21 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/27/2013 2:49:46 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Is it ever ok? Sure, when the patient decides they have had enough. When the physicians determine nothing more can be done. It should NOT be based upon what a limit has been reached..


Spoken like a true liberal.
Sure, lets spend 10 million dollars to give grandmom 3 months more of miserable life.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/27/2013 4:18:11 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Sure. We can go that route. I even recall back in my college days (we used an abacus then) there was talk about rationing health care. A cut off age for certain procedures was being bandied about. 70 was the age for heart surgery. Can you imagine that now?

There has been a LONG history of such stupid talk in the US. Grandma isnt entitled to care? Really? What about infants? You know, the one that because he registered 95 percentile on the growth chart he was labeled obese and therefore denied health insurance? Is that something else you consider "miserable"?

Tell me your true bitch here. How much are YOU looking to spend on the ACA? Have you crunched your own numbers? Have you bothered?

Another news flash. I am ALL for single payer. Hell, I think we need a national health care. Imagine the savings to business?

Big Business should have never gotten into health care. As a nation, we fucked up. So instead of paying for granny's healthcare, you prefer the model that determines when its no longer "profitable to keep granny alive"... profitable to keep anyone alive.

And if you think 10 million dollars to keep her alive during the last 3 months is even close to the truth, darlin, I have a Bridge to Russia from Alaska to sell you.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 10/27/2013 4:19:00 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/27/2013 4:36:10 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Is it ever ok? Sure, when the patient decides they have had enough. When the physicians determine nothing more can be done. It should NOT be based upon what a limit has been reached..


Spoken like a true liberal.
Sure, lets spend 10 million dollars to give grandmom 3 months more of miserable life.




Spoken like a true arsewhole........ Find me just one case of a grand mom needing $10 million for 3 months of life and I will apologise.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 140
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