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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Obviously, tweak agrees with that, but that doesn't answer my question.
Is it ever okay to stop treating someone?
How do we determine what is "premature" and what isn't?
Is it the same for everyone, or not?

Premature is when the physicians determine it to be. Premature if dying from a disease process that is easily curable if treated.
Is it ever ok? Sure, when the patient decides they have had enough. When the physicians determine nothing more can be done. It should NOT be based upon what a limit has been reached.
Is it the same for everyone? Of course not. End stage renal failure can run different courses. Magic Johnson has lived how long with HIV?
What IS premature? A woman in her 40's diagnosed with early stages of breast cancer but no money for treatment. A man with prostate cancer but no way to diagnose because he cant get treated due to lack of insurance/money.
I could go into a long list, but the only common denominator is lack of insurance/money. If you have enough money, you dont need the insurance. If you have the insurance, you might be able to afford the co-pay with little money. Without either, you receive no treatment and chances are you will die prematurely.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Thank you for telling me what I think DS! Tazzygirl has already answered your question eloquently.
Here's my far less eloquent response, bearing in mind that I agree with everything tazzy stated. A "premature" death in this context is a death that could have been prevented if the victim had access to healthcare that would would have prevented the death but is denied access for non-healthcare reasons such as lack of insurance cover. In practice that works out pretty much along the lines Leonine and tazzy described - private insurance death panels determining who gets treatment, or the victim not accessing services for fear of the financial consequences, or because they knew no insurer would cover the costs of their treatment.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Another news flash. I am ALL for single payer. Hell, I think we need a national health care. Imagine the savings to business?
Big Business should have never gotten into health care. As a nation, we fucked up. So instead of paying for granny's healthcare, you prefer the model that determines when its no longer "profitable to keep granny alive"... profitable to keep anyone alive.

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And if you think 10 million dollars to keep her alive during the last 3 months is even close to the truth, darlin, I have a Bridge to Russia from Alaska to sell you.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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Why did Big Biz get into health care? I'm sure it was simply for profits and had nothing to do with externalities, like government.

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I can see it from here!!

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ETA: Good to see you back, Tazzy, even though we don't agree on much!

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Is that something else you consider "miserable"?

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Tell me your true bitch here. How much are YOU looking to spend on the ACA? Have you crunched your own numbers? Have you bothered?

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It isn't a question of bother. I would spit on it before I would sign up.

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You think govt is qualified to decide the level of care granny gets. I think granny is - along with granny's doctor and nurse.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Rights are whatever society deems they are. Society changes, so do rights.
Insisting that rights are objective indicates a moral base for those rights. We have even seen morality change in our generation.
And we both know these rights are not inherent. So Im lost as to your argument here.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Why did Big Biz get into health care? I'm sure it was simply for profits and had nothing to do with externalities, like government.

Ask Nixon.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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There is a massive difference between a right and a privilege. Privileges change when society changes them. A right, is a right, is a right. It's a right now. It was a right then. It's always a right.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Tazzy hadn't responded yet.

Your agreement with leonine's description certainly does show that I wasn't putting words into your mouth at all.

Do you believe a person has a right to receive something they can't pay for, based solely on need? That is, they can demand it be provided to them without any promise of reimbursement for the service or product based solely on need?

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Why did Big Biz get into health care? I'm sure it was simply for profits and had nothing to do with externalities, like government.

Ask Nixon.

I just did. He didn't answer. So, I'll ask you, again.

Why did Big Biz get into health care?

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

OF course an insurance company makes decisions on how long level of care lasts for so many people, and usually sooner rather than later
BTW still no cite for your ten million for 3 months for granny???

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

OF course an insurance company makes decisions on how long level of care lasts for so many people, and usually sooner rather than later
BTW still no cite for your ten million for 3 months for granny???

a). I wasn't asked for a cite.
b). The number is irrelevent. Tazzy said cost should never be used to determine care. I find that thinking ridiculous.
For purposes of hyperbole I picked 10 mil. Feel free to chose whatever number you want. 50 million - 500 million.

Yes! Every american should be entitled to $500 million dollars in free medicine. And its an outrage, an outrage I say that it isn't so!

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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It isn't a question of bother. I would spit on it before I would sign up.

Meaning, no, you havent. You are no better than the people Hannity brought on.

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At this point, insurance companies decide. They decide by deciding how much can be spent, both during any given year and a lifetime cap.