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RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/26/2014 11:36:10 PM

wittynamehere

Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali
Can men be truly submissive?

If you define "men", "truly", and "submissive" fully then we'll be able to answer your question. If you just want us to use the dictionary's definitions for those words, the answer is "yes".

_____________________________

I almost never return to a thread, so if you saw my post and want me to hear your reply, please message it to me.

(in reply to ThePrincessKali)

Post #: 41

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 12:04:10 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
....
Kidding, I got my kicks and so did they. It was fun and most had vanilla spouses who didn't know about their secret "urges".
Those guys need to have fun too! Let's not be selfish.
I think findommes like EVERYONE on the forum has been saying are just a part of supply and demand and if this is the role you want to play, EMBRACE IT COMPLETELY and have fun!
....

TPKali, could this be part of the problem? Who do you think most of these "submissive" males are who seek out fins and pros or any other Domme to gratify "their secret 'urges'"?

Your question reworded: Can cheating-minded married men truly be submissive?
Where's the integrity in spinning that web of lies and deceit?
Not only are they not true to their wives, they are not being true to themselves. The truth is not in them.

The conundrum, then, is can an imposter be a *true* anything other than a phony, a liar, and a cheat?

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to GoddessManko)

Post #: 42

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 12:13:08 AM

JennyDevine

Posts: 21
Joined: 11/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rawni

I have found more submissive men in vanilla-land than I have in kink-land. If that tells you anything.

This man I know a mentor for me for years and a dominant man for sure, older and a bit more mature, would agree with you and for submissive women. He finds it easier to get sub women offline or from vanilla land as you say. For the older man without the 6-pack abs and gift of gab, even attractive and slim, online is tough. Off the street as it were, is much easier.

(in reply to Rawni)

Post #: 43

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 12:24:15 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Good male subs that have built up a decent rep are very sought after and its unlikely you will find one of those on a site like this unless they are already owned, but it would be unfair to say that submissive males on here are mostly wankers. I believe a fairly large number just haven't been given a decent chance.

I completely disagree, but then everyone's experience is different. Especially online vs offline. :)

What do you disagree with? the good rep or that most submissive males aren't wankers and that a large number haven't been given a chance?

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to GoddessManko)

Post #: 44

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 1:56:15 AM

ThePrincessKali

Posts: 424
Joined: 9/19/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
....
Kidding, I got my kicks and so did they. It was fun and most had vanilla spouses who didn't know about their secret "urges".
Those guys need to have fun too! Let's not be selfish.
I think findommes like EVERYONE on the forum has been saying are just a part of supply and demand and if this is the role you want to play, EMBRACE IT COMPLETELY and have fun!
....

TPKali, could this be part of the problem? Who do you think most of these "submissive" males are who seek out fins and pros or any other Domme to gratify "their secret 'urges'"?

Your question reworded: Can cheating-minded married men truly be submissive?
Where's the integrity in spinning that web of lies and deceit?
Not only are they not true to their wives, they are not being true to themselves. The truth is not in them.

The conundrum, then, is can an imposter be a *true* anything other than a phony, a liar, and a cheat?

I'm not really sure how you jumped from my original question to that. I never mentioned anything about cheating or married men... That's like me saying I enjoy warm weather and you re-wording it as, I enjoy being blistered and burned by the sun.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 45

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 1:58:06 AM

ThePrincessKali

Posts: 424
Joined: 9/19/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
....
Kidding, I got my kicks and so did they. It was fun and most had vanilla spouses who didn't know about their secret "urges".
Those guys need to have fun too! Let's not be selfish.
I think findommes like EVERYONE on the forum has been saying are just a part of supply and demand and if this is the role you want to play, EMBRACE IT COMPLETELY and have fun!
....

TPKali, could this be part of the problem? Who do you think most of these "submissive" males are who seek out fins and pros or any other Domme to gratify "their secret 'urges'"?

Your question reworded: Can cheating-minded married men truly be submissive?
Where's the integrity in spinning that web of lies and deceit?
Not only are they not true to their wives, they are not being true to themselves. The truth is not in them.

The conundrum, then, is can an imposter be a *true* anything other than a phony, a liar, and a cheat?

And you're calling me a phony, liar, and a cheat? Because I asked a simple question? Just want to clarify. Because that makes no fucking sense.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 46

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 2:23:06 AM

ThePrincessKali

Posts: 424
Joined: 9/19/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali
Can men be truly submissive?

If you define "men", "truly", and "submissive" fully then we'll be able to answer your question. If you just want us to use the dictionary's definitions for those words, the answer is "yes".

Yes I would be happy to clarify. When I say "truly submissive" I mean wanting to please their Domme and make her happy. To put her needs before their own. I was not necessarily referring to financial domination, it was an observation based on what I've read in the forums as well as my own experience. I used the term "truly submissive" to differentiate between what I just mentioned and men who say things like, "I want to make my girlfriend tie me up and humiliate me," for example. Or men who want to top from the bottom or want something specific done to them without concern for what the Domme wants. I do not consider someone like that to be "truly submissive." Some men get sexual pleasure from being dominated but it is about them, not the Domme. They consider her a way to get off, not a Superior. I consider someone to be "truly submissive" when they put their Domme's wants before their own. And when I say "men" it's usually because I don't want to call them submissives because the type of person I am describing, to me, isn't a submissive even if they identify as such. For example, I recieved a message today from a man in his fifties begging to be my slave. He stated he wanted to be an oral slave. He told me how performing oral sex on a woman really gets him off. How he loves being in between a woman's legs and he knew I would enjoy it. He was listed as a submissive on his profile. His message contained all "I" statements. Not one asking if that was something I enjoyed, if I would allow a man twice my age to perform a sex act on me (the answer is no), or anything about me or what I liked. So that's an example of someone I would consider not a "true submissive."

(in reply to wittynamehere)

Post #: 47

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 2:23:58 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
....
Kidding, I got my kicks and so did they. It was fun and most had vanilla spouses who didn't know about their secret "urges".
Those guys need to have fun too! Let's not be selfish.
I think findommes like EVERYONE on the forum has been saying are just a part of supply and demand and if this is the role you want to play, EMBRACE IT COMPLETELY and have fun!
....

TPKali, could this be part of the problem? Who do you think most of these "submissive" males are who seek out fins and pros or any other Domme to gratify "their secret 'urges'"?

Your question reworded: Can cheating-minded married men truly be submissive?
Where's the integrity in spinning that web of lies and deceit?
Not only are they not true to their wives, they are not being true to themselves. The truth is not in them.

The conundrum, then, is can an imposter be a *true* anything other than a phony, a liar, and a cheat?

And you're calling me a phony, liar, and a cheat? Because I asked a simple question? Just want to clarify. Because that makes no fucking sense.

Whoa, there. Did you infer that "imposter" was referring to you? You cannot tell me that the cocktail mix of your lack of interest in having a boyfriend (i.e., steady love interest), which is entirely your choice, and the calibre of so-called submissive men (men who call themselves that, not according to your own definition) you are getting exasperated with (not just on this thread but on at least another very recently) are not related to those men who are straying from their primary intimate relationship.

I run into all kinds of married men contacting me every day. How do I know this? Because of their evasive b.s. stories that don't line up, their predictably shabby behavior and excuses, contradictions, etc. This would come as a surprise to you on this site or any other ostensibly "singles" site?

If you are as clueless as that, then no wonder you are perplexed as to why you think 2/3rds of the men you interact with don't appear to be "truly submissive." Per what RedMagic1 mentioned, you're doing a lot better than we would estimate as being more along the lines of 5%. I would even go so far as to put that percentage at less than that depending on age group or varying factors.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to ThePrincessKali)

Post #: 48

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 2:30:32 AM

ThePrincessKali

Posts: 424
Joined: 9/19/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
....
Kidding, I got my kicks and so did they. It was fun and most had vanilla spouses who didn't know about their secret "urges".
Those guys need to have fun too! Let's not be selfish.
I think findommes like EVERYONE on the forum has been saying are just a part of supply and demand and if this is the role you want to play, EMBRACE IT COMPLETELY and have fun!
....

TPKali, could this be part of the problem? Who do you think most of these "submissive" males are who seek out fins and pros or any other Domme to gratify "their secret 'urges'"?

Your question reworded: Can cheating-minded married men truly be submissive?
Where's the integrity in spinning that web of lies and deceit?
Not only are they not true to their wives, they are not being true to themselves. The truth is not in them.

The conundrum, then, is can an imposter be a *true* anything other than a phony, a liar, and a cheat?

And you're calling me a phony, liar, and a cheat? Because I asked a simple question? Just want to clarify. Because that makes no fucking sense.

Whoa, there. Did you infer that "imposter" was referring to you? You cannot tell me that the cocktail mix of your lack of interest in having a boyfriend (i.e., steady love interest), which is entirely your choice, and the calibre of so-called submissive men (men who call themselves that, not according to your own definition) you are getting exasperated with (not just on this thread but on at least another very recently) are not related to those men who are straying from their primary intimate relationship.

I run into all kinds of married men contacting me every day. How do I know this? Because of their evasive b.s. stories that don't line up, their predictably shabby behavior and excuses, contradictions, etc. This would come as a surprise to you on this site or any other ostensibly "singles" site?

If you are as clueless as that, then no wonder you are perplexed as to why you think 2/3rds of the men you interact with don't appear to be "truly submissive." Per what RedMagic1 mentioned, you're doing a lot better than we would estimate as being more along the lines of 5%. I would even go so far as to put that percentage at less than that depending on age group or varying factors.

So because I was asking if it's really in men's psychological nature to be submissive you assume what I meant was can married cheating men be submissive? And I'm clueless? You're the one making extreme accusations and completely twisting what I'm saying. I am upfront about being a fin domme. I am completely upfront with anyone who messages me. So how exactly does that make me a "lying, cheating, imposter?" If I was misleading men to believe they would have a relationship with me when I didn't want one, that would be lying. If I deceived men about the fact I am a fin Domme, then I would be an imposter. I have done none of those things so please explain to me who I'm lying to? And what happened to the "you can attack the post not the poster" rule?

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 49

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 2:51:59 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Communications

Breakdown

...

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to ThePrincessKali)

Post #: 50

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 3:26:32 AM

ThePrincessKali

Posts: 424
Joined: 9/19/2012
Status: offline

So based on your logic all men who claim to be submissive are cheaters and liars? I don't understand your logic. You are basing your "re- wording of my initial question" on what someone else said. And please enlighten me, who am I lying to? Who am I deceiving? Being an imposter, who am I pretending to be?

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 51

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 3:44:12 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

The conundrum, then, is can an imposter be a *true* anything other than a phony, a liar, and a cheat? = The conundrum, then, is can a male sub who is a liar and a cheat be a *true* anything other than a phony, a liar, and a cheat?

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to ThePrincessKali)

Post #: 52

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 3:52:18 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Based on my logic, you don't care whether the men who contact you are married or not:

"I'M A FIN DOMME. I don't give a fuck about watching you shove something up your ass, watching you dress up in your wife's panties, or making you suck some guys dick. If you want to do it then do it. But I DON'T CARE. Unless it's part of me dominating you and the proper tribute has been made then don't ask me because I don't care."

But you do care whether they are "truly submissive."

Here, I found the perfect match for you, the OP of this active thread. He also lives in your state and is not looking for a steady girlfriend.
"What do YOU want your submissive male to DO to please you?"
http://www.collarchat.com/m_4623240/tm.htm

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to ThePrincessKali)

Post #: 53

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 4:19:18 AM

SoulAlloy

Posts: 2106
Joined: 8/23/2009
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline

Simple answer - yes.

Convoluted answer - can anyone be truly submissive?

I always aim to put my partner first, that can occasionally come to my own detriment where I ignore my own needs and limits. There will always be exceptions (e.g. Where my son is concerned, if a choice would cause him unnecessary trouble/harm I would expect the dominant to understand why I would not do that).

_____________________________

"Better to be a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without" - Confucius

"It'll be alright in the end - if it isn't alright, it's not the end." - unknown

Kinky crossdressing Whovian

Host of the Preston (UK) Munch, 2nd Wednesday each month

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 54

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 4:57:40 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

Kali, believe it or not, you're one of my favorite posters on these boards. There's an openness in how you ask questions, a lack of defensiveness and an internal honesty, that most people don't have. Anyway, I like it.

One thing you might have to consider, given how much you changed your profile before because of what men were saying about it, is that you might not be as dominant as you think you are. Here's a story. My last serious use of CM as a dating resource was when I said to myself, "Damn. The most attractive women on the site, by far, are the findoms. I should hit on them." And I did. I wrote ladies with a personalized version of, "Are you looking for anything more than just fin slaves? I don't have a fin fetish, but I'm looking for a kinky partner, and you're quite attractive." Everyone responded very politely, either saying, "No thanks, money only," or, very common, "THANK GOD THERE'S SOMEONE ON THIS SITE WHO TALKS LIKE A NORMAL PERSON. Sure, let's talk for a bit, see if there's a connection."

After a lot of conversations, and getting to know a couple people in real life, I'm confident that a lot (probably the vast majority) of findoms are really switches or vanilla. There's something about the dom side of the fin fetish that is kind of switchy: attraction to men with economic power, use their power for my ends, instead of building independent power of my own.

Something to think about. What kind of man are you really looking for? And -- what kind of woman is he looking for?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SoulAlloy)

Post #: 55

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 6:50:42 AM

Apocalypso

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali
The reasons I was angry was because I was called fucking stupid and I thought you were defending that.

I didn't say you were fucking stupid. I said you were being (e.g. behaving) in a fucking stupid way. Not the same thing at all. The former is about you as an individual, the latter is about how you are acting at a specific time.

If it helps, I also say that people claiming that women can't be dominant are being fucking stupid.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to ThePrincessKali)

Post #: 56

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 7:24:47 AM

SeekingTrinity

Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline

~FRing it~

While I believe in folks doing what works for them (ie. findomming, etc), I do feel that being a findomme can (not always) attract a certain caliber of individual who is rather centrally focused on their kinks/fetishes and reasonably may expect you to cater to that as a pro would. And so yea, those folks may not in fact be truly submissive and are just out to get theirs no matter how they go about attaining it. It's just the pond you are fishing in, so you may be more apt to get the dude just looking to get his rocks off more commonly than perhaps another might. It isn't an attack on you personally, but rather the nature if the beast you kind of have to deal with given how your profile currently reads. I'm assuming this particular medium is where you are receiving messages that prompted this question though. If Im wrong on that, I do apologize.

Can a male be truly submissive? In my experience, yes they can be. My guy is as alpha as they come with the rest of the world, yet when it's his time to submit to me...he submits from a sincere place because it's a true desire on his part. Just as I submit to nothing and no one in every other aspect of my life, yet I submit from a sincere place when it's my time to submit to him. It's entirely possible. Just depends on the guy, what he is looking for, and how that meshes with what you are looking for.

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 1/27/2014 7:29:29 AM >

(in reply to Apocalypso)

Post #: 57

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 7:30:00 AM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Good male subs that have built up a decent rep are very sought after and its unlikely you will find one of those on a site like this unless they are already owned, but it would be unfair to say that submissive males on here are mostly wankers. I believe a fairly large number just haven't been given a decent chance.

I completely disagree, but then everyone's experience is different. Especially online vs offline. :)

What do you disagree with? the good rep or that most submissive males aren't wankers and that a large number haven't been given a chance?

Where it was said that the best of submissives are in demand and likely taken though it wasn't a severe disagreement, just a personal observation. Most subs I know are the same as me and not visible. But it again goes to the online/offline dynamic.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 58

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 7:34:03 AM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
....
Kidding, I got my kicks and so did they. It was fun and most had vanilla spouses who didn't know about their secret "urges".
Those guys need to have fun too! Let's not be selfish.
I think findommes like EVERYONE on the forum has been saying are just a part of supply and demand and if this is the role you want to play, EMBRACE IT COMPLETELY and have fun!
....

TPKali, could this be part of the problem? Who do you think most of these "submissive" males are who seek out fins and pros or any other Domme to gratify "their secret 'urges'"?

Your question reworded: Can cheating-minded married men truly be submissive?
Where's the integrity in spinning that web of lies and deceit?
Not only are they not true to their wives, they are not being true to themselves. The truth is not in them.

The conundrum, then, is can an imposter be a *true* anything other than a phony, a liar, and a cheat?

LOL FieryOpal, well you can look at it that way, but I see it as them being true to themselves and I DO hope eventually they severe their vanilla relations for their TRUE desires but that's not my decision to make if they are just amusement for only a few moments and naught more. :)

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 59

RE: Can men be truly submissive? - 1/27/2014 7:35:33 AM

CandiDanielz

Posts: 36
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline

in response to your original post yes.
In a findom way i have a sub who we chat to and he tributes because he respects and loves the fact i am a domme.
He doesn't ask for cam time or want me to watch him shoving a cock up his arse.

and in the real word my boyfriend can be very submissive. because he loves me.

so yes.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)

Post #: 60

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