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RE: 50s style household - 3/22/2014 10:59:06 AM   
SeekingTrinity


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Kitty, I honestly feel for you and can't imagine how hard it is to live inside a body that doesn't match what you know you are. But you do know that your SRS is for you, right? I'm seeing unrealistic expectations on your part, which is what people have been talking about. No one here sounds against SRS at all. Im all for it.

SRS won't stop people who are so deeply entrenched in hatred. It won't stop discrimination, hate crimes, violence, cruelty, bullying, prejudice, unemployment, homelessness, poverty, or any of the other horrors that people face. Those predisposed to hate don't hate you for your genitals. They hate because they are sad pathetic little people who don't know any better. And sadly no amount of SRS will change that. It won't enlighten them, it won't make them grow morality, it won't make them decent human beings. Haters will hate no matter how many reasons for their hate you take away.

You can't change them. No matter how many body parts get taken off, altered, or added. Some people are just miserable little shits who only find happiness in tearing down innocent people. It's unrealistic to expect them to be different just because you have SRS. Do your SRS FOR YOU and your own happiness, not because you think it will make the shits of the world treat you better. You are setting yourself up for huge disappointments if you are.

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: 50s style household - 3/22/2014 12:25:52 PM   
evesgrden


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I think you're wrong.
I don't think it's all about prejudice or distaste. It's more about how many medical dollars there are to go around and how to priorize who gets them. Once you start talking major surgery the dollars go up, and the purpose of the surgery is to alleviate distress.

Let's say hypothetically that 10 years from now you will be able to have your surgery. Are you going to spend the next 10 years being miserable and bitter? Is that what you want out of the next 10 years of life.. to feel nothing but resentment? Sounds like adding insult to injury to me, and it kinda slams the door on any chance of finding a partner. Self pity and bitterness aren't exactly love magnets.














quote:

ORIGINAL: kittysbell

lets not theorize wether or not i could make a theoretical copay, focus on why its not included at all. were not talking about a waiting list for organs,were not talking about a shortage of surgeons who could perform it,not that medical science doesnt have a cure. were talking about a society who doesnt want to cover something they have a personal distaste for.they dont want us to be able to go through a day without being constantly reminded of who they think we are,the decision is prejudice. they dont wanna have to work with us,no employment.they dont wanna have to stop being violent,no hatecrime. they dont want to allow us protection from the elements,no housing. they dont want to allow us a quality of life,no medical.



_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: 50s style household - 3/22/2014 12:33:57 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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That's been my point from the start as well, Trinity.

OP,

You can't get past your anger and you think your anger is special because of GID. Its not. Everyone in the world has problems and issues and often can't get treatment for monetary reasons. Its maddening.

Right now, as you present yourself on these boards, you aren't a good candidate for surgery. I've no doubt you are trans or truly want SRS. But your expectations are completely unrealistic. Should you find someone willing to listen to your angry outbursts and foot the bill (another unrealistic expectation), when the surgery is complete, you will still be angry and face hatred and prejudice, you just won't have a penis.

We have someone who is a regular here that is a trans. Her and I talk semi regularly and I would move heaven and earth to help her with anything. She is a wonderful PERSON. You present such a horrible attitude. Why would anyone want to help you?

And don't spout off more about how life has made you angry. I get it. You hate yourself and the world. You have a penis you don't want. But I've seen nothing in what you said that tells me you will suddenly become a wonderful person without a penis. You will be just as unlikeable and will be coming up with new reeasons why you are treated poorly by society.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: 50s style household - 4/1/2014 12:23:29 AM   
kittysbell


Posts: 32
Joined: 10/10/2011
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perhaps im lucky non of you are trained medical professionals with my life hanging in your hands,just mere unafflicted commentators who think they know whats best.who would pretend surgery isnt a necessity.20 grand is a drop in the bucket when compared to other interventions.a recent figure states that the cost of surgery is but .5% of other surgical/medical treatments, alot of which are perpetual costs and not one time cures.

do you not think the ability to function sexually would alleviate distress? i have no preconceived notions about acquiring proper medical care,it wont eradicate bigotry(thats where relearning social scripts may come into play).it wont make me fall in love with life,but grant the ability to fall in love with anouther.and perhaps that might be the start of a positive outlook.noone wastes their time dating somone they cant be physically intimate with.thats called friends.

an perhaps your trans friend never had to feel the brunt of societys disdain.perhaps they come from a better area.maybe they have a support network of family an friends who didnt just annex them from their lives. maybe theyve never been physically attacked or emotionally assaulted on a far to regular a basis not to expect it.

you who take such ability for granted.. apathy is the root of all evil,for without it no other is possible.
http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-trans-health-care-discrimination-a-demand-to-all-major-health-insurance-providers-in-the-united-states?share_id=wxpjvnAioK&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: 50s style household - 4/1/2014 3:48:07 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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I'm sorry kitty, the other posters are right.

And as much as you protest that it is life-saving surgery, really it isn't.
You won't die for not having it, and that's the truth of it.

In every post you've made so far is so full of bitterness and hatred for anyone and everyone and the world at large that you really aren't a good subject for SRS.
You really need to get help and deep therapy so you can become a likeable person first and foremost before you even consider anything else.

There are many that cannot function sexually for many different reasons.
That doesn't make the surgery a life-saving issue that you are making it out to be.
Even your last post is so full of personal bitterness, you wouldn't pass a psychiatric assessment for SRS.
You are just making excuse after excuse for your shit attitude.
For you to get anywhere, you need to lose that. Seriously.

Be realistic, get help to cure your mental illness before attempting to cure your physical one.

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: 50s style household - 4/11/2014 12:30:12 AM   
kittysbell


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wher does one get off thinking denial of otherwise readily accessable care is conducive to personal growth and development? anyway nenenehnahneh,an im not telling a troll why,lol.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: 50s style household - 4/11/2014 3:48:37 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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Freedomdwarf is far from a troll. I'm not surprised you still don't get it. Yet, still I will break it down again.

Yes, sex can alleviate stress. However, your bold and deluded assumption that it is necessary for an intimate relationships iis in need of education. Unless of course you meant to insinuate and insult every man with erectile dysfunction or women who have sexual issues?

Surgery is what will give you the ability to fall in love? Again, this speaks clearly to your own self hatred.

You truly are the personificatiion of why the psychological assessments are necessary. Surgery will not change your problems. Surgery will not make you more likeable.

Surgery is NOT life saving. Learning to love yourself, who you are will save your life. If it WAS life saving then every trans person would need it to have a fufilling life. Considering the large number of trans people who DON'T have that final surgery, AND live happy, fuffilling lives AND have satisfying INTIMATE relationships, the fact that you go on and on about it being an absolute need and life saving screams of narcissism, not much else.

So please tell me why surgery would make you a more likeable person?

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: 50s style household - 4/12/2014 12:48:50 AM   
kittysbell


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some people just dont understand the diffrence between transexualism and the political affiliation of transgender. ones a medical classification distinct by a persistent knowing their in the wrong bodie , an endocrine issue ,a disorder of sex. the other a social construct ripe with transvestism. one has a cure that allows sexual function,the others in no need of surgical intervention. GID doesnt encapsulate the later it is a seperate mode of existence chartacterised by the extreme distress ive exhibeted. you may like to pretend a handfull of viagra and a pep talk is all thaats needed,but then youd be driving a person truly afflicted to suicide. its not the same as somone whos lost sexual function,its somone whos never had it.its not a wish to be seen as the gender presented,its knowing what sex you are and being discriminated against for it. the unafflicted will never know the hell of this biologic variance,they will only continue to perpetrate the social oppresion through expression of their ignorant opinion.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: 50s style household - 4/12/2014 2:42:22 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittysbell

some people just dont understand the diffrence between transexualism and the political affiliation of transgender. ones a medical classification distinct by a persistent knowing their in the wrong bodie , an endocrine issue ,a disorder of sex. the other a social construct ripe with transvestism. one has a cure that allows sexual function,the others in no need of surgical intervention. GID doesnt encapsulate the later it is a seperate mode of existence chartacterised by the extreme distress ive exhibeted. you may like to pretend a handfull of viagra and a pep talk is all thaats needed,but then youd be driving a person truly afflicted to suicide. its not the same as somone whos lost sexual function,its somone whos never had it.its not a wish to be seen as the gender presented,its knowing what sex you are and being discriminated against for it. the unafflicted will never know the hell of this biologic variance,they will only continue to perpetrate the social oppresion through expression of their ignorant opinion.


Back the heck up. You're assuming that we, the heteronormative world, bear the burden of understanding the trans world. We don't because we can go on living our cis lives just fine. You, as a trans person, bear the responsibility of educating us. So calm down and try to do just that.

I THINK what you are discussing is the difference between trans people, which are people who identify as the gender opposite from what they were born with (gender identity dysphoria) and crossdressers, who simply get a sexual kick out of dressing in other-sex clothes.

Regarding the pep talk and Viagra, I don't see any evidence of that in this thread (admittedly, I haven't dug into it all the way). Please don't ascribe things to people unless they actually say them.

That said, the suicide rate for trans people does bother me a lot. Being trans is not something I'd wish on anyone because the pain of transition is hell.

Saying that we cis people will never fully understand what trans people endure is true. Saying we perpetrate the social oppression through expression of our ignorant opinion is a pile of crap, and states that either we are trans ourselves, or we are horrible people. That's bigotry, plain and simple.

Cis people form a huge majority in this world. If you cannot live in peace with us, you'll have a very small, unhappy world.

I count among my friends six or seven trans people that I've talked to in RL, and another half dozen or so from collarme. I've played with two of them. Almost all of them have a huge joy that they have transitioned and are living as their proper gender, something that we cis people take for granted every day. You are fully passable, and I hope you find that joy.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: 50s style household - 4/12/2014 2:08:30 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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Bull OP. I'm talking about people who consciously made the decison to not have the final surgery. The transgendered man who gave birth? Chaz Bono? Are you implying they don't suffer from the same disorder you do? Again, narcisissm on your part.

Now you think that erectile dysfunction is "cured" through a pep talk and a handful of viagra.

Your lack of knowledge is astounding all while you tell the majority of the world we are just too ignorant to grasp your situation.

I grasp it just fine. You are miserable and desperately unhappy. What you don't get is nearly everyone on this board can see you waving your mental illness around and blaming it on having a penis. It isn't your GID that is your primary problem in life. But you don't want help for that, you want someone to pay for your surgery. Yet you can't make yourself likeable enough that anyone would want to.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: 50s style household - 4/12/2014 2:32:37 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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Your ignorance and lack of empathy for others is astounding. You behave as if the world owes you a perfect life, and you're the only one who's ever been born with things less than perfect.

Wow, just wow.

_____________________________



(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: 50s style household - 4/12/2014 8:28:37 PM   
kittysbell


Posts: 32
Joined: 10/10/2011
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^ "omg some some tranny just told us to fuck off, just wow",lol.

^^thanks for showing your face. i was wondering why a cis person had so much interest in repeatedly commenting against a thread concerning the absence of proper care for a disorder of sex. its that mindset wher its "just a mental disorder,get over it" that im calling ignorant,but really its not, its purposefull deceit.and i dont see the smartass viagra comment any diffrent from your own resolutions to the problem.an yes,access to technology,specificly medical technology is a human right.like a girl with a cleft lip,just those mindsets like yours seem to be persistant.

^^^ive been trying to educate the masses,problem is i have these people trolling the thread ignoring links and expressing their unafflicted opinion in an attempt to overtalk. i will from now on instead of focusing on them, ignor them, and reply to mindsets like yours that are open to said education...in so saying thank you to everyone else whos commented.

http://transequality.org/PDFs/Executive_Summary.pdf

http://transequality.org/Resources/TransAgingPolicyReportFull.pdf




< Message edited by kittysbell -- 4/12/2014 9:07:31 PM >

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
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RE: 50s style household - 4/14/2014 4:18:22 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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You just don't understand reality, do you? Sometimes that little girl with the cleft pallett doesn't have the ability to get surgery. Sometimes the guy in need of a kidney transplant doesn't qualify.

Being a whiny bitch because YOU have failed to earn the money for this treatment and no one is volunteering to pay for it on your behalf disqualifies you.

Let me simplify this for you. Even if you had the surgery tomorrow and became all the woman you want to be, your life would still suck, and you would still be bitching about it. Why? Because your crappy outlook on life, your narcissiism and lousy people skilss don't reside in your penis. So you would face all the same challenges, just without a penis.

You see peoples attitude about you as being directed to your GID. Its not. Its you as a person.

(in reply to kittysbell)
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RE: 50s style household - 4/20/2014 5:12:24 PM   
Culdron


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While shockingly off topic and yet back to the original idea of fitting in by learning female norms, I have a suggestion. Op you mention you do a lot of volunteer work, have you ever thought of doing so in places where mothers and their female offspring congregate? If you are worried about being mocked, try being in a back ground role. Any place there are parents they will be instructing their children how to act. And many will welcome free help no matter how it arrives. Also get your colors done at a make-up counter. It's an expense but it will help you feel good about yourself.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: 50s style household - 5/26/2014 7:47:00 PM   
kittysbell


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i chalked a fun rainbow hopscotch on the sidewalk wher the bounce houses go during the bash,thats my normal "background involvement".

(in reply to Culdron)
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RE: 50s style household - 5/27/2014 2:57:10 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
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The ability to have sex won't make you someone that other people want to have sex with.
Yeah, you'll be able to get one night stands. There's always a drunk who doesn't care what the woman looks like or sounds like.

But that's different than being someone who is lovable.

Be someone worth loving and then find a partner. A life partner will not balk at supporting a partner and helping her pay for needed surgery.

You want someone to pay for it while getting nothing in return.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: 50s style household - 5/29/2014 4:10:16 PM   
BecomingV


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I read the whole thread and I've been keeping this one in.
50's style household AND abortion - I know it!!!
Revolutionary Road
Now, there's a script.
(the thread needed humor)

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: 50s style household - 5/29/2014 5:59:26 PM   
BecomingV


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVpcmJFbXfI

^^^Social Courtesy (1951)

I searched youtube using "social graces" and clicked on "social graces etiquette." Many, many instructional vids come up on this topic.

For poise (classy composure), a video won't do the trick. Some parts can be mimicked or learned through practice. Posture, voice modulation and extreme control of voluntary facial muscles, including eye lid control, are superficial parts of poise.

What sets poise apart from other social graces, such as hosting a formal dinner, ballroom dancing or how to drink from different glasses, is that poise cannot be taught or learned. It flows from the inside. That is why a woman can be on a yacht wearing a gown, while another is in farmer's overalls in a corn field, and BOTH can be poised.

So, what makes a woman poised? First, self-respect, then respect for others. It's an agreement to participate with others in ways that are beyond reproach. There's a confidence in the knowledge of what is honorable and respectable behavior, and what is unacceptable. Strength of character, gained through consistency of moral choices and fair play, is the core of steel beneath the soft, gentle presence. She knows when to yield and when to take charge. She is like the willow tree, bending with the breeze so as not to break when the storm hits. She is confident in her ability to endure, to rise again and to offer hope to others, through soft, caring eyes. No one can fake this.

Since there are things that you cannot control just now (like, surgery today), I'd suggest that focusing on the parts that you can do, will bring you closer to the goal. And, you'll have some skills for your life in your new body. What can you do right now, for free?

Go to the library. Look for books from the 50's. My daughter found a "Bartender's Guide" for home hosting. Every page has illustrations of people dressed in clothes of that time period. There aren't just drink recipes. There are etiquette tips, advice on types of glasses, serving platters and more. What's fun to read is the patriarchal advice on how to please your husband, why doing things one way will ease his burden, and how you should do it that way, even though it presents major pains in the ass, for you. It goes all over the place in terms of "correctness," so look for books like that. It can be culture immersion.

If library hours make it difficult, try online - Project Gutenberg, which offers a gazillion books and audio books, for free. They also need volunteers to create audio books, so this could be a way for you to add gender-issues literature to the online library. If that interests you.

Kitty, I've led an incredible life, so far. Granted, I'm a little nuts, but I'm a lovable nut. As I get older, I've learned to put words to... my patterns, which are not easily discerned. Here's why I attain ridiculously lofty goals, when I decide to reach them while others, superior to me in many ways, cannot do the same.

I do what I can do, right now. Others, wait before acting.

Picture yourself on a city street, standing on the sidewalk, mid-block and you are looking at the intersection from that distance. You want to go to a place that is up at the cross light, and then to the left, and beyond that, you aren't sure. But, you are mid-block and can't see to the left of the intersection. The buildings block your view.

If you just know the goal, even though you don't know exactly how to get to it, you only need start. So, walk to the intersection, go left. Explore, pay attention. Voila! There's a sign that gives you another set of incomplete directions. Follow them, even though you can't be sure there's another sign ahead. Maybe another person walking will offer directions.

It's a cliche to go boldly towards your dreams, but I live it. You see, once you understand that if you commit to a goal, with no doubt because there's too much determination, surprises happen. But, you see that first sign to the left, would not have been found, unless you walked in that direction without knowing everything, for sure.

I've found that plans and methods may change, but so long as the goal is steady, with persistence and effort, I get there.

Here's a scenario. You join an online etiquette group, and through them, you connect with a group of ballroom dancers who invite you to learn with them. At the dance hall, you meet a person whose sister is a surgeon who does pro-bono work. Not the kind that you need, but... because you volunteered and decorated the hall for the Doctor's Ball, you got to meet her, and her old medical school study group leader, who does perform the surgeries that you need. You've given so much of yourself, the dancers rally behind your back and convince the Doctor to put you on the schedule.

Sound unbelievable? To a lot of people, it is fantasy. To me, it's experience.
So, commit to a goal and just whip up any old plan for reaching the goal. The plans will change as you get closer to the goal, so you only need, starter plans. Taking action now in any area towards the goal, is progress. Watch the video, read a book... anything that you CAN do.

I'll end with focus. This is a Tony Robbins thing...
You are learning to drive a race car and the instructor is sitting beside you. You are speeding up to the curve and each second, the concrete wall gets bigger and bigger. If you don't make the turn, you will go splat and become wall paint. It's terrifying and compelling. You have to keep an eye on that wall.
The instructor grabs your helmet by the chin and turns your head towards "the direction you WANT to go," not on the direction you don't.

Our hands follow our eyes. This is why some people notice that they have attracted their worst fears. Well, that's what they focused on with the most intense emotions behind the thoughts. So, control your focus.

Your post expresses pain, but in an anti-social, repellent and alienating way. So, you are getting flack, and rightly so. But, I can't deny being moved by your desperation, however offensively you convey it. People do care, but your posts show that you are your own worst enemy. It appears that you are currently incapable of receiving support and encouragement... and it's all through the thread... amid other stuff. I don't think that therapy - the "go to" around here, works for everyone. Translate that into a wish that you expand beyond the current hell you live in, using whatever approach works for you.

The race car is you, the finish line is surgery and everything else (energy spent on rage, wishing for a knight in shining armor, and wasting time paying attention to things or people that you have zero chance of controlling), be clear... those are indulgences that you are choosing INSTEAD of choosing to focus on the goal.

BTW, the stories above... I taught my daughters that these are the qualities of women of substance. Other mothers teach different things.

I wish you all the best, Kitty.

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: 50s style household - 6/5/2014 2:45:50 AM   
cloudboy


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It is probably easier to find this in foreign cultures where gender roles tend to be more strictly divided.

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: 50s style household - 6/5/2014 4:40:20 AM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
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Becoming V, I think you're missing key elements of what kittysbell is seeking. It's not education.

She is seeking a lifestyle live in condition in which she will be educated, taken care of, and ultimately have her surgery provided for her.

This is not about skill acquisition, consider these excerpts from the OP

"relish in the protection of such a role. to be cared for,taught like a daughter".
"taking on such a project is not a lighthearted task,physical correction must always be the goal,and its costly. "

She wants a daddy/teacher, but only if he will provide for her and paying for her surgery must always be the goal. Not her skills. Not her service. Not his needs or desires. It's all about finding someone who will pay for her surgery.

Money for the surgery. In exchange for being a submissive maid-in-training with benefits.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to BecomingV)
Profile   Post #: 120
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