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BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull, un... - 7/9/2006 11:26:06 AM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		This was posted in another area, and quite simply i just did not know how to answer it. well let's say i do know how to answer it, but it really should come from a Leather Lifestyle BDSM Master or Mistress. i read the replys it was getting in the other forum and no one was giving the right answer, probably because He is asking about BDSM questions in a Gorean Discussion Room. Would any Leather Lifestyle BDSM Masters or Mistresses like to touch on the subject of The Long History and Traditions of the BDSM Leather Lifestyle? Seeking truthfull, unbiased and educational answers please.
 
sincerely,
jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
BDSM Alpha slave and Gorean kajira
The Poly House Of Hussey, A Multi Sect Household
Property Of Master Ken
 
Posted only to give a background on the questions being asked.
 
"Start Of Quote"
 
"A Question on a Practice In Which Some People Engage - 7/6/2006 1:01:18 PM "
 
"Tal and greetings all....

I shouldn't do this just before I go away for a weekend, but there is something that keeps coming up time after time and mostly getting shunted aside. I will also say that the chances of flames running hot and high are pretty good.

That warning having been given....

I have seen in a fair number of posts in various places over the years about Masters who will not let their slaves call anyone else Master or serve anyone but themselves in any way, including something as simple as fetching food or drink. I have seen that also as being something more common in BDSM Masters than in Gorean Masters. Only the owner being called Master seems to be the norm there, or the norm among many. I have verified this with people who have been involved in the BDSM lifestyle for a decade and more as being true. Note...not true in all cases on either side.

I admit to wondering why this is. On the BDSM side, it may be partly to mostly tradition. This is not the case on the Gorean side. Therefore I have asked myself why this is. I have come to a few conclusions and feel that some people probably have more than one of these reasons for behaving this way.

The first reason is that the Master comes from BDSM and it is just a carry-over from there. He doesn't know the Gorean traditions.

The second reason is that the man is so insecure in his mastery that he does not want to chance his slave serving anyone else or calling someone else Master as that would reduce whatever control over her he has and he would chance losing her.

The third possibility is that he is just a jealous and greedy asshole and wants to keep everything to himself. <grins>

The fourth and last reason I will give is that he was taught that way by people who fit under the first reason and just doesn't know any better because he learned how to master a slave by playing at it online.

From what I have observed over the years, the first and second reasons are the most common. When it comes to combinations, the first and fourth reasons seem to group together as well as the first and second. I have seen the second and third in combination and by themselves, but not that often. The second and fourth happens but with time and exposure to things such as the books seems to change to the Gorean norms.

Are there other reasons for this that you have seen? What do you think is the reason or the most common reason behind this behavior? Why do people continue to do it after learning what the common and proper Gorean practice is?

Be well all.....

Malkinius "
 
"END Of Quote"
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 11:38:04 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
In Gorean terms, men are Masters - and if within that environment, one should respect the traditions and posturings.
 
In BDSM terms, the person obviously sees the refusing of calling a self proclaimed Master,'Master' as a weakness or a selfish act.
 
The thought of the person asking the question will not change until they are willing to understand that there exists monogamy, there exists humility and there exists equals.  It isn't necessarily anything to do with tradition.  There is no 'tradition' in BDSM.  Maybe within sections of BDSM, but not all people associate themselves with single sects.  It is about the individual, not the cult itself.
 
If a person enters Gorean life and wishes to take it seriously, then they will learn - however slowly - the principles and traditions.  If they wish to immerse themselves within Gor, they will abide by those traditions.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to jezabelKH)
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RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 11:41:35 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		A distinction without a difference, as I am wont to say.


(I am cross-posting now)

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to jezabelKH)
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RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 11:44:14 AM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
  There is no 'tradition' in BDSM.  Maybe within sections of BDSM, but not all people associate themselves with single sects.  It is about the individual, not the cult itself.
 
 
 
i will have to agree to disagree with you, there is a long line of BDSM Traditions, Look at the NLA or MAsT just to name a few institutions.
 
and BDSM is a Lifestyle NOT a cult.
 
yes there are many sects in this lifestyle, none are better none are worse, but all of them have traditions, rules and a code of honor they go buy.
 
sincerely....jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 11:52:55 AM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

A distinction without a difference, as I am wont to say.


(I am cross-posting now)

Ron 



Sir,
 
i enjoyed your complete text in the other forum, much more than this abreviated one.....
 
sincerely,
jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken


"Start Of Quote"
 
"Well, I fit in no catagory here, Gorean, non-Gorean, BDSM, tradition, insecure, jealous and greedy (well, let's hole that one up dawg, I may be that) or taught at the knee of others, much.

I don't loan my car, or tools or dishes or mop or underwear to any asshole that wants it either.  Nor do I wear a suit everyday.  So, in a hospitable gathering of friends and reasonably assured acquaintances......I can and will be somewhat gregarious with my property.  After all, it is mine. But as Odin says, when you walk into a dark house, examine every corner carefully, for you do not know who lies in wait with evil intent (from the Havamal) paraphrased, of course...I can't quote my name hardly, let alone an ancient passage. 

That is how it goes with me.

Sincerely,
Ron "
 
"End Of Quote"

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 12:04:51 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		I do not think we disagree.  I believe our words agreed.

quote:

i will have to agree to disagree with you, there is a long line of BDSM Traditions, Look at the NLA or MAsT just to name a few institutions.


BDSM is not a tradition.  But there are traditions within it, because of the different sections who participate within BDSM.  Same thing.

quote:

and BDSM is a Lifestyle NOT a cult.

I never said that BDSM was a cult.  But there are cults within BDSM.  And those do have, again certain traditions.  But BDSM is about the individual.  However - the individual themself decides whether to enter a specific section of the 'community' or a cult within it or stay as an individual.

So yes, we do agree -

quote:

yes there are many sects in this lifestyle, none are better none are worse, but all of them have traditions, rules and a code of honor they go buy.

 

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 12:10:40 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well the thing is, JezebelKH,

In a gathering of Goreans, it is assumed straightaway, that one will act with pomp and circumstance and be aware of the cuddle (a group of BDSMers is a mob, a group of geese a gaggle, a bevy of beauties...so I will call it a cuddle of Goreans, knowing no better)

and the basic rules.........here, no such assumption can be made....while each one takes personal pride and honor in themselves, and their own, it is rather more difficult to accept the world at large as being in your sphere, and having some confederation with your ideals.  In the Gorean way, it is more strictured (because  I can't think of the word I want, and perhaps in this case , no word exists  for it, I could say  clannishness, but that might carry connotations that I am not sure are understood or accepted jovially by those of us which are clannish).....I am of the opinion that at a Gorean Gathering, a  person, couple, clan, household  owning or belonging.....whatever you  deem that to be, would be  vociferously shunned if they fell to  far outside the idea of basic principle and sociality.

Say you had  a male Master as we generally call that, who had a harem of male slaves.....their being put to good use as serving wenches (which in that mans mind is valid) might cause pause at a Gorean Gathering....they will be given a number and watched closely.................at a BDSM gathering, while some unease may exist.....it would be accomodated and forgotten.......perhaps (and I use that word like it is meant in the books)

All this is ultimately bullshit, cause it is only my opinion......but you see what I am getting at. 

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 12:15:40 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well the thing is, JezebelKH,

In a gathering of Goreans, it is assumed straightaway, that one will act with pomp and circumstance and be aware of the cuddle (a group of BDSMers is a mob, a group of geese a gaggle, a bevy of beauties...so I will call it a cuddle of Goreans, knowing no better)

and the basic rules.........here, no such assumption can be made....while each one takes personal pride and honor in themselves, and their own, it is rather more difficult to accept the world at large as being in your sphere, and having some confederation with your ideals.  In the Gorean way, it is more strictured (because  I can't think of the word I want, and perhaps in this case , no word exists  for it, I could say  clannishness, but that might carry connotations that I am not sure are understood or accepted jovially by those of us which are clannish).....I am of the opinion that at a Gorean Gathering, a  person, couple, clan, household  owning or belonging.....whatever you  deem that to be, would be  vociferously shunned if they fell to  far outside the idea of basic principle and sociality.

Say you had  a male Master as we generally call that, who had a harem of male slaves.....their being put to good use as serving wenches (which in that mans mind is valid) might cause pause at a Gorean Gathering....they will be given a number and watched closely.................at a BDSM gathering, while some unease may exist.....it would be accomodated and forgotten.......perhaps (and I use that word like it is meant in the books)

All this is ultimately bullshit, cause it is only my opinion......but you see what I am getting at. 

Ron



smirks........loves it whey You say all this is ultimately bullshit......just love Your opinion........smiles.

jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 12:31:58 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

I never said that BDSM was a cult.  But there are cults within BDSM.  And those do have, again certain traditions.  But BDSM is about the individual.  However - the individual themself decides whether to enter a specific section of the 'community' or a cult within it or stay as an individual.

So yes, we do agree -


 
no, we do not agree.
 
i never use the word cult and BDSM Leather Lifestyle in the same sentence,  cult and BDSM Leather Lifestyle are two terms that are mutually seperate and have completely seperate meanings.
 
jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 12:35:35 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		Quote from Malkinius:
"Snip"
I have seen in a fair number of posts in various places over the years about Masters who will not let their slaves call anyone else Master or serve anyone but themselves in any way, including something as simple as fetching food or drink. I have seen that also as being something more common in BDSM Masters than in Gorean Masters. Only the owner being called Master seems to be the norm there, or the norm among many. I have verified this with people who have been involved in the BDSM lifestyle for a decade and more as being true. Note...not true in all cases on either side.

I admit to wondering why this is. On the BDSM side, it may be partly to mostly tradition. This is not the case on the Gorean side. Therefore I have asked myself why this is. I have come to a few conclusions and feel that some people probably have more than one of these reasons for behaving this way.

The first reason is that the Master comes from BDSM and it is just a carry-over from there. He doesn't know the Gorean traditions.

The second reason is that the man is so insecure in his mastery that he does not want to chance his slave serving anyone else or calling someone else Master as that would reduce whatever control over her he has and he would chance losing her.

The third possibility is that he is just a jealous and greedy asshole and wants to keep everything to himself. <grins>

The fourth and last reason I will give is that he was taught that way by people who fit under the first reason and just doesn't know any better because he learned how to master a slave by playing at it online.
"Snip"

Respectfully requesting to get back on topic, specifically on items 1 thru 4.
 
jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken

< Message edited by jezabelKH -- 7/9/2006 12:37:07 PM >

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 12:39:35 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
jezabel - You are only reading my words as you see them and I am trying to explain that you misinterpreted my words or that I may have written them wrongly and not made myself clear.
 
BDSM is not a cult.  But cults do exist within them.  Leather community is not a cult and I never said it was.  Just because I used them in the same sentance, does not make them the same thing.
 
I would appriciate it if you would be respectful enough to accept my attempt to clear up your misunderstanding of what I said.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 12:51:02 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

jezabel - You are only reading my words as you see them and I am trying to explain that you misinterpreted my words or that I may have written them wrongly and not made myself clear.
 
BDSM is not a cult.  But cults do exist within them.  Leather community is not a cult and I never said it was.  Just because I used them in the same sentance, does not make them the same thing.
 
I would appriciate it if you would be respectful enough to accept my attempt to clear up your misunderstanding of what I said.
 
Peace and Rapture



Thank you

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 12:56:37 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		My question is... why are you cutting and pasting snippets here and there from another, current discussion?  You still have a beef with Master Malkinius?  Good lord woman, get over it. 


(in reply to jezabelKH)
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RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 1:00:16 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

My question is... why are you cutting and pasting snippets here and there from another, current discussion?  You still have a beef with Master Malkinius?  Good lord woman, get over it. 




puella,
 
i have NEVER had a beef with Malkinius. i feel the question was asked to the wrong segment, so i seek knowledge from another. you may be petty all you want. end of subject.
 
RESPECTFULLY REQUEST TO GO BACK ON TOPIC.......... TO SECTIONS 1 THRU 4.
 
jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 1:10:52 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

My question is... why are you cutting and pasting snippets here and there from another, current discussion?  You still have a beef with Master Malkinius?  Good lord woman, get over it. 

It's been weeks since we've been treated to unnecessary drama from the "House of Hussey."  We were obviously overdue.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to puella)
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RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 1:13:23 PM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I would not want My one to call another master after she was Mine. The term carries special meaning between her and I
I am not a Gorean, so it is a different thing to me. It carries with it deep meanings of love and submission. So it is not for all to be addressed that way.

As far as serving in a social atmosphere. I would expect her and myself to be polite and attentive to guests.

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RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 1:14:19 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

My question is... why are you cutting and pasting snippets here and there from another, current discussion?  You still have a beef with Master Malkinius?  Good lord woman, get over it. 

It's been weeks since we've been treated to unnecessary drama from the "House of Hussey."  We were obviously overdue.

~stef


you are off topic
Back On Topic Please

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 1:16:56 PM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		RANT ALERT:
By now Ive decided that there's an aweful lotta mincing words on this site and I refrain from posting for the mere fact that my words will be put thru a meat grinder.  Im truly sorry its that way cuz it could be a lovely thing and something to bring us closer together.  This thread is a perfect example of why I hesitate.

(in reply to jezabelKH)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 1:17:04 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

I would not want My one to call another master after she was Mine. The term carries special meaning between her and I
I am not a Gorean, so it is a different thing to me. It carries with it deep meanings of love and submission. So it is not for all to be addressed that way.

As far as serving in a social atmosphere. I would expect her and myself to be polite and attentive to guests.



Thank You for Your response.
 
i would have to agree the title Master has a deeper meaning to me and belongs to only one, it is earned, not given freely to just any Man.
 
jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken

(in reply to Kedikat)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: BDSM Masters and Mistresses someone needs truthfull... - 7/9/2006 1:19:25 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

RANT ALERT:
By now Ive decided that there's an aweful lotta mincing words on this site and I refrain from posting for the mere fact that my words will be put thru a meat grinder.  Im truly sorry its that way cuz it could be a lovely thing and something to bring us closer together.  This thread is a perfect example of why I hesitate.


No not a rant, seeking true answers on BDSM Leather Lifestyle traditions and history.
 
sincerely,
jezabel{KH}
just simply a slave
Property Of Master Ken

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)
Profile   Post #: 20
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