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RE: Suicide. - 11/30/2014 8:55:41 PM   
Gauge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

Actually I thought I saw some contenders for "top crappy post" earlier than that!!



I think this discussion has gone well actually. This is a heated subject for some, and frankly, it has gone well and is still going well and shouldn't be changed or moved in my not so humble opinion.

One time when I was down and I was feeling suicidal someone told me to just kill myself and get it over with. I got a terribly wicked grin on my face and told the person that I would, but I wouldn't be dying alone that day... and I smiled even more.

Served them right.

_____________________________

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I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: Suicide. - 11/30/2014 8:56:08 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		True!


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RE: Suicide. - 11/30/2014 8:57:55 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

................One time when I was down and I was feeling suicidal someone told me to just kill myself and get it over with. I got a terribly wicked grin on my face and told the person that I would, but I wouldn't be dying alone that day... and I smiled even more.

Served them right.


I'll say!!


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RE: Suicide. - 11/30/2014 8:59:42 PM   
CobaltRose


Posts: 246
Joined: 11/10/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeartAndSoul31

I am 4th generation kick your ass. How do you like that cry baby?

Um, who the hell are you? You are on the internet, you cant kick anyone's ass

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Suicide. - 11/30/2014 9:27:31 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

Never forget the most important thing, even over and above pain... dignity and quality of life. Dying without pain is important, but dying with some dignity and retaining some quality of life is important. There is nothing dignified about death so making it easier for people to go on their terms rather than shit themselves or forget who their loved ones are is also a consideration.



Not to put too fine a point on it but you do realize that no matter how a person dies, the body almost always evacuates, right? Setting aside a person starving themselves for about 36-48 hours before they do the deed, the waste will be leaving the body?

And, I don't know about anyone else but I'm having a MONSTER meal before I bid you all a fond "adieu".







Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Suicide. - 11/30/2014 9:32:45 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Not to put too fine a point on it but you do realize that no matter how a person dies, the body almost always evacuates, right? Setting aside a person starving themselves for about 36-48 hours before they do the deed, the waste will be leaving the body?

And, I don't know about anyone else but I'm having a MONSTER meal before I bid you all a fond "adieu".



Of course, thus my comment about there being nothing dignified about death.

My comment was directed at quality of life before the moment of death, if it wasn't clear, I do hope it is now.


_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: Suicide. - 11/30/2014 9:43:32 PM   
DeviantlyD


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Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Give me that 10 page thread baby! Really beat that dead horse. That's the stuff...


I have a suggestion. I think the sig line might have an added bit of punch if it were to end thusly:

That's the stuff...ooo, ooo, uh huh, just like that. Oh yeah.

*apologies for major thread drift on a serious subject...just trying to lighten the mood from those who derail in a negative way*

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RE: Suicide. - 11/30/2014 10:58:29 PM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		~FRing it~

Whether it's pain from a shitty life or pain from a horrible illness, its not up to me to decide who gets "oh, you poor thing" and who gets a "get the fuck over it, you whiny baby." They both deserve my care and my compassion. Emotional suffering hurts just as badly as physical suffering does. It all hurts the same and lowers someone's quality of life.


< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 11/30/2014 11:00:18 PM >

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RE: Suicide. - 12/1/2014 11:36:18 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


It's understandable, I think, NG.



It's not understandable for me, Peon, but I would concede that it's an individual perspective on life. The type of person you want to be, the type of person you have cultivated, and obviously the values that you have chosen to take on board.

I think that when it comes to such a situation, all bets are off, which means all politics, all judgement and all everything.

These things just don't matter when faced with a situation whereby someone has taken their life and I personally find it just a very sad situation for anyone, and if it was a loved one I'd be heart-broken - not angry - and in a way I'd be pleased they were at rest.


< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 12/1/2014 11:37:17 AM >

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RE: Suicide. - 12/1/2014 8:23:57 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		When my mother died, I was relieved that the long slow decline was over and that she was out of pain. I was also absolutely angry with her for not fighting for one more day. And having those conflicting emotions is normal and natural. Because they're feelings, they aren't facts. And feelings don't have to make sense.

So it's okay if you did feel angry and if you also at the same time felt grateful that their pain was gone. Because having conflicting emotions is part of what makes us human. We are capable of multiple emotions that make no sense, all at the same time.

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Suicide - 12/2/2014 2:02:01 AM   
starkem


Posts: 159
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Wow. It takes me forever to read these threads with my visual impairment. However, I want to give everyone audience and the benefit of fairness.

I see some of you are angry with respect to such a topic when it is merely being discussed. I know you are bored by this discussion, so I will not address you at all. This is just my choice.

Suicide is not a choice as with similarly situated life threatening diseases as defined by the US (I believe this determination was adapted in 1972). Suicide, to the contrary, is an abnormal and overwhelmingly compelling contraction of the thought process that overrides ones ability to survive. I am sure someone will argue the semantics of the aforementioned, but to no avail, clinically speaking. I you wish to venture into such futility, bring along your medical degree. I'm sure someone will find it amusing. Maybe the MOD will (no shade).

I support the advocacy of suicide, but I do not support violence. I can see the disruption one would cause if your suicide causes some undue harm -or even the perception of harm. I told my NUT Doctor that suicide was my way of self affirming that my life has to have meaning or I will discard it. This is not normal thinking, but it is also not cowardice or bravery. These terms are not relative. There is a certain dark nobility in the notion that a life without meaning or substance is a life not worth living. I was informed that I am a nihilist, because I do not wish to believe that my life could be venturing down the hill into a shitty abyss. LOL Good one Doc (the nihilist part, the rest is my own whiny, shitty conclusion). I will use that (the nihilist part....! You see, I keep my sense of humor or I will act upon my convictions.

There is treatment for suicide. It saddens me that some have no access to some form of relative treatment. Even with treatment, suicidal ideations can be very debilitating -also not relative to laziness. I am further saddened that some are just so misinformed about the lethal consequences of misfortune. Suicide derived from non-physical pain has been deemed an act of anger and a measure of reanimating control over the last decision of one's life. As I have stated before, however, the reasons are irrelevant -the anger of losing control are met with a resounding final solution (how dramatic -very relative). Each morning my brain says TERMINATE! END PROGRAM. EARTH SEQUENCE ACCESS DENIED. Sarcastically, my cowardly abnormal ass has to fight those messages of non-existence rationale.

In the midst of reading all the posts, I did my regular Youtube educational supplement on the subject. I find the words of this researcher to be most profound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drv3BP0Fdi8

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Suicide - 12/2/2014 7:00:22 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He's also wrong because he's only a psychologist, he's not a neurobiologist. Depression can be situational. But it can also be a genetic disorder.

I'm not depressed because my life lacks meaning or is full of pain. I suffer from depression because it's an illness that I inherited. In exactly the same way someone else inherited a heart murmer or an early tendency to gallbladder disease.

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RE: Suicide. - 12/2/2014 12:25:47 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I can't duscuss this as clearly as I want to.

My 91 year old grandfather should not have had to live in pain as long as he did. I'm even more a supporter of assisted suicide than I was before. It's fucked up that he had to live like that.

Gauge- give your lady an extra squeeze for me. Hospice was a miracle for my family recently and she does the work of angels. I can't even express my gratitude to hospice. I don't know how anyone does what she does.

I read about a study a few years ago about suicide and those that are at the end of their life and in pain, basically, they result was that if people could control their pain level by having control of how much pain meds they could have (rather than a doctor deciding that), then most would choose to live rather than commit suicide.. So it seems that the level of pain is a major factor in a persons decision to do that or not do that.. The problem being that doctors control the pain meds and the govt controls the doctors.. doctors don't want to lose their license or be put on trial, possibly go to jail cuz they gave someone too many prescription meds & that person overdosed/died.. I know someone who is 90 and she is always wanting pain pills but the doctor only gives her a prescription for 4/day.. The govt has increased restrictions on that drug even more lately (& also more to prevent doctor shopping).. making it more difficult for people in pain to get a level of comfort they can (literally) live with..


He was 91. He was a diabetic, had a rare auto immune disease, and heart problems. He got diagnosed with esophageal cancer last February. he stopped eating solids two months ago. Stopped keeping anything but clear liquid down two weeks ago, and eventually that wouldn't go down either. He was on morphine, phentennoyl, and oxy. He was on a mess of anti aniexity meds also, because of the PTSD he got from living through Normandy. He died when his kidneys shut down just last week. Don't you think a lot of pain could have been avoided in this case by assisted suicide?

It is a raw situation for me, but if I had the ability to let him slip into peaceful sleep, rather than suffer unnecessarily for the last six months, I would. Sometimes pain killers don't make a difference, period.


I am not against assisted suicide, imo it is a person's choice, either way.. if it was something I decided to do I would go someplace where that was allowed and I would help someone else that was terminal to do that too, if I could & that was what they wanted..

..restricted access to pain meds (if needed) can be one part of a persons decision to want to die.. my point was that people who are in physical pain and restricted on their pain meds are basically being forced to consider suicide as a way out of the pain.. as I said, I know a 90 year old lady with painful medical issues and she is always asking for pain meds.. the doctor has restricted her to 4 pills/day.. she has said to me several times that she wants to die rather than be in that much pain.. I would rather see her have the pain meds she needs to live whatever time she has left without the pain, but its not up to me.. so she continues to suffer..

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RE: Suicide. - 12/2/2014 12:42:36 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I read about a study a few years ago about suicide and those that are at the end of their life and in pain, basically, they result was that if people could control their pain level by having control of how much pain meds they could have (rather than a doctor deciding that), then most would choose to live rather than commit suicide.. So it seems that the level of pain is a major factor in a persons decision to do that or not do that.. The problem being that doctors control the pain meds and the govt controls the doctors.. doctors don't want to lose their license or be put on trial, possibly go to jail cuz they gave someone too many prescription meds & that person overdosed/died.. I know someone who is 90 and she is always wanting pain pills but the doctor only gives her a prescription for 4/day.. The govt has increased restrictions on that drug even more lately (& also more to prevent doctor shopping).. making it more difficult for people in pain to get a level of comfort they can (literally) live with..


Never forget the most important thing, even over and above pain... dignity and quality of life. Dying without pain is important, but dying with some dignity and retaining some quality of life is important. There is nothing dignified about death so making it easier for people to go on their terms rather than shit themselves or forget who their loved ones are is also a consideration.


I know someone with dementia and she knows who her loved ones are, she also knows that her daughter died before her and that fact brings her much deep sadness/depression.. she asks why she wasn't taken instead.. but she still has a son and grandchildren.. her grandson just came to visit her a couple of weeks ago.. she knew who he was, btw..

There are a lot of reasons why someone might consider suicide..

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RE: Suicide. - 12/2/2014 4:43:31 PM   
YouName


Posts: 271
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I promised that I have fought my way through so many things and even "cheated death" a couple of times that I am not about to help that old bastard along until the timing is convenient for me. That's how I look at it.





You can't checkmate that bastard but you can make him work for it as you said.
I also think that in a way, seeing rough times and seeing people like you face up to them with a fighting spirit is important for relatives and friends. It adds a dimension to anyones life. It also adds an oppurtunity to help someone they care about which is oftentimes rewarding initself.

So keep going dude, I hope for the best. Like you said, with the technology progressing as rapidly as it is, nothing is impossible. Recently a new form of extremely basic life not based on DNA or RNA has been developed. A whole new strain of life may thus even be possible.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Suicide. - 12/2/2014 9:40:57 PM   
starkem


Posts: 159
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		DesFIP, you missed the point. No one is stating that depression does not have genetics as a a factor. I even went as far as to say in an earlier post that suicide can be contagious. Ism not a doctor or a researcher however. I'm not trying to qualify my statement, but I agree with your plight and its medical history. My suggestions nor the research are an absolute. It is a researcher that studied a comparison and contrast of people with very different lifestyles to suggest difference in patterns.

It does not invalidate your condition or the history of its prevalence in your family. Since it was only a twenty minute talk parts of the presentation had to be skipped. I thought he did briefly mention the neurological implications of depression and the symptom of suicide. I apologize if I made you feel some invalidation being suggested. All biological organism are products of nature and nurture. Hopefully that statement is less imposing on your medical history. Their are patterns and pathologies to every medical condition that are different for different people.

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RE: Suicide. - 12/3/2014 4:24:15 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
One time when I was down and I was feeling suicidal someone told me to just kill myself and get it over with. I got a terribly wicked grin on my face and told the person that I would, but I wouldn't be dying alone that day... and I smiled even more.

I know a guy who thinks that all people who wants to commit suicide are losers and don't deserve to live. So anyway, he had a female friend who confined in him that she feels like killing herself. He told her to go ahead, nobody gives a shit! The thing about this dude is, that he believes in tough love, hardcore talk, and all that shit, he believes that mollycoddling actually enables the problems.

But in this true story, that girl was in her early 20's. She jump off a building and killed herself.

And I said to him, despite that happening, how could he possibly still feel the way he does towards suicidal people? And he simply said, her dying was not his fault, she was planning to die already anyway! But I felt, he pushed her over the edge when she reached out to him. But he still feels, that may be so, but then she don't deserve to live if she did not want to live.

There are some psychologists out there who actually do believe in this reverse psychological method to help suicidal victims, but...., I just hope who-ever uses it, make really good judgement that, this person can really turn around through harsh reverse psychology.


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RE: Suicide. - 12/3/2014 4:27:54 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourBigDaddy1967

Many years ago, I had a boss that killed himself. He had everything in the world to live for, He was training at my store, and had just competed training and had been given his own store. Not co manager or anything like that. They made him head manager of his own store. He'd just gotten engaged, bought a brand new car,

He had everything to live for, he went home and blew his brains out.

what went on in his mind that he couldn't go on one more day.

It's exactly like Robbin Williams. The world loves him, he has a beautiful family. Well loved comedian and actor, and yet...., his not happy, and cannot be saved.
Same with whitney houston whom you think also has everything.
When people doing well in life are committing suicide, it's clearly a mental disease that needs a cure.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/3/2014 4:28:06 AM >

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RE: Suicide. - 12/3/2014 5:39:18 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I know a guy who thinks that all people who wants to commit suicide are losers and don't deserve to live. So anyway, he had a female friend who confined in him that she feels like killing herself. He told her to go ahead, nobody gives a shit! The thing about this dude is, that he believes in tough love, hardcore talk, and all that shit, he believes that mollycoddling actually enables the problems.

But in this true story, that girl was in her early 20's. She jump off a building and killed herself.

And I said to him, despite that happening, how could he possibly still feel the way he does towards suicidal people? And he simply said, her dying was not his fault, she was planning to die already anyway! But I felt, he pushed her over the edge when she reached out to him. But he still feels, that may be so, but then she don't deserve to live if she did not want to live.

Forgive me, Greta, but the guy sounds like a major loser himself.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Suicide. - 12/3/2014 5:44:36 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

Richard Cory
BY EDWIN ARLINGTON ROBINSON

Whenever Richard Cory went down town,
We people on the pavement looked at him:
He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
Clean favored, and imperially slim.

And he was always quietly arrayed,
And he was always human when he talked;
But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
"Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.

And he was rich—yes, richer than a king—
And admirably schooled in every grace:
In fine, we thought that he was everything
To make us wish that we were in his place.

So on we worked, and waited for the light,
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread;
And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
Went home and put a bullet through his head.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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