quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Your whole problem is a right & wrong mindset, solipsistic views, veiled bigotry, and closed mindedness. Next, if we viewed you as 100%, than 95% of you lacks pragmatism and a real connection to the world as a whole. In place of that connection is a kind of self-serving idealism in place of realism.

You can try to oppose migrations by force, laws, self-rightousness, et. al. but none will stop it. This is what I said. Truly, too, you can offer no evidence to the contrary. If the US was besieged by calamity, famine, economic collapse, and widespread corruption, you'd see migration going outward and other nations would not be able to stop it.

Its sad, but true, the USA has failed at fostering development and stability in Central American, Africa, and the Middle East -- but if the US was better at this nation building -- we'd be stopping migration at the source.

Lastly ^^^^ the above is besides the point, in the USA, the migration has already happened.

The $18B a year spent on immigration enforcement HAS NOT WORKED.

You're like a man dripping wet who opposes water. Can you not search within your self for that adult who finds solutions to move forward, even when it goes against your own particular ideals and sensibilities? (From what it sounds like, your ideals would be MASS DEPORTATIONS enforced by a police state.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
Everyone knows that we need some new ideas (I never had a good idea on immigration). All the Republicans do is demagogue. They say, they won't talk about it until we seal the border. Here is the reality: We will NEVER seal the border. It just isn't possible.


So now what???

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the "undocumented immigrant" moniker is an illustration of the way the left uses language to change the narrative...what, there is no criminal or illegal action going on here! lets just give these people their papers and everything will be hunky dory.

I note with sweet irony and perfect timing how "amnesty" is a right wing term with negative connotations.

ann coulter (mere mention of whom is likely to send the comrades here into painful paroxysms) just wrote a book called "adios America" that is all about this topic. I suspect it will be an informative and thought provoking read.

Not only do they change the language by using use the new word "undocumented" but they INSIST that you and everyone else begin using their new word too

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
Everyone knows that we need some new ideas (I never had a good idea on immigration). All the Republicans do is demagogue. They say, they won't talk about it until we seal the border. Here is the reality: We will NEVER seal the border. It just isn't possible.


So now what???

How about giving a green card to any illegal/undocumented immigrant that has started a small business and has hired at least 1 American? A program like this would also encourage immigrant workers to to start businesses instead.. Immigrants do start small businesses and create jobs, but for those that do, unless they can make enough money ($1 million verifiable & in the bank) to qualify under an EB-5 visa to become legal, they are at extreme risk and so are their employees.. deportation means the business is wiped out and those jobs are gone..

"Immigrants Twice As Likely To Start Businesses As U.S.-Born Citizens"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/immigrants-new-businesses_n_1499719.html

http://www.latitudenews.com/story/americas-newest-small-town-entrepreneurs-illegal-immigrants/

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/14/nation/la-na-ff-immigration-business-20130915

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

My astonishment wasn't really aimed at you. It was a general statement. There are several regular posters here that don't want the US to control who comes into the country.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

My astonishment wasn't really aimed at you. It was a general statement. There are several regular posters here that don't want the US to control who comes into the country.

I don't think there are any easy answers to this problem. But something is going to have to be done.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
Everyone knows that we need some new ideas (I never had a good idea on immigration). All the Republicans do is demagogue. They say, they won't talk about it until we seal the border. Here is the reality: We will NEVER seal the border. It just isn't possible.


So now what???

How about giving a green card to any illegal/undocumented immigrant that has started a small business and has hired.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Only if we don't do a half ass job like we have everywhere since Korea

Well I did say if I was in a position to make such a suggestion, in which case you would not have to worry.

K.

True

I have said, for years, that the answer to the illegal aliens in this country is a military one, but my solution is still a little bit unorthodox as it borrows just a touch of it's strategy from Pres. Bush (II):

We have a standing program in this country where any foreign national who serves four years in our military is given citizenship. We can use that!

Initiate a huge enlist push amongst the illegal aliens. Sign as many up as we can.

Then, we invade Mexico, using the newer troops, just like Bush invaded Iraq (with no exit strategy) and the problem is solved! The illegals are back home!

Hope I helped.



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'm not sure what you mean by "at least from our end," but it doesn't sound like what I meant. We are faced with criminal gangs in control of territory on our border. That is not acceptable. My suggestion was intended to convey that either Mexico re-establish sovereignty over those territories or we will, and I don't mean that we'll re-establish Mexico's sovereignty. When we're done, the border will be a little farther south.

If the same problem occurs again, then the process will continue until Mexico is reduced to a size its government is capable of exercising sovereignty over. If you're right about the government and the gangs being indistinguishable from each other, I'm fine with that being zero.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Only if we don't do a half ass job like we have everywhere since Korea

Well I did say if I was in a position to make such a suggestion, in which case you would not have to worry.

K.

True

I have said, for years, that the answer to the illegal aliens in this country is a military one, but my solution is still a little bit unorthodox as it borrows just a touch of it's strategy from Pres. Bush (II):

We have a standing program in this country where any foreign national who serves four years in our military is given citizenship. We can use that!

Initiate a huge enlist push amongst the illegal aliens. Sign as many up as we can.

Then, we invade Mexico, using the newer troops, just like Bush invaded Iraq (with no exit strategy) and the problem is solved! The illegals are back home!

Hope I helped.



Michael

I'm willing to bet that they would be standing in line to enlist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'm not sure what you mean by "at least from our end," but it doesn't sound like what I meant. We are faced with criminal gangs in control of territory on our border. That is not acceptable. My suggestion was intended to convey that either Mexico re-establish sovereignty over those territories or we will, and I don't mean that we'll re-establish Mexico's sovereignty. When we're done, the border will be a little farther south.

If the same problem occurs again, then the process will continue until Mexico is reduced to a size its government is capable of exercising sovereignty over. If you're right about the government and the gangs being indistinguishable from each other, I'm fine with that being zero.

K.

In some areas, the government and gangs are that indistinguishable. In the south, there are militias starting to rise up to combat it.

I think the statement that criminal gangs are in control of territory on our border is a fair statement. My personal opinion is that it is going to take extreme measures to resolve it, and that unless there is radical change within the governments at all levels throughout Mexico, they will not be the ones enacting those extreme measures.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'm not sure what you mean by "at least from our end," but it doesn't sound like what I meant. We are faced with criminal gangs in control of territory on our border. That is not acceptable. My suggestion was intended to convey that either Mexico re-establish sovereignty over those territories or we will, and I don't mean that we'll re-establish Mexico's sovereignty. When we're done, the border will be a little farther south.

If the same problem occurs again, then the process will continue until Mexico is reduced to a size its government is capable of exercising sovereignty over. If you're right about the government and the gangs being indistinguishable from each other, I'm fine with that being zero.

K.

In some areas, the government and gangs are that indistinguishable. In the south, there are militias starting to rise up to combat it.

I think the statement that criminal gangs are in control of territory on our border is a fair statement. My personal opinion is that it is going to take extreme measures to resolve it, and that unless there is radical change within the governments at all levels throughout Mexico, they will not be the ones enacting those extreme measures.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'm not sure what you mean by "at least from our end," but it doesn't sound like what I meant. We are faced with criminal gangs in control of territory on our border. That is not acceptable. My suggestion was intended to convey that either Mexico re-establish sovereignty over those territories or we will, and I don't mean that we'll re-establish Mexico's sovereignty. When we're done, the border will be a little farther south.

If the same problem occurs again, then the process will continue until Mexico is reduced to a size its government is capable of exercising sovereignty over. If you're right about the government and the gangs being indistinguishable from each other, I'm fine with that being zero.

K.

In some areas, the government and gangs are that indistinguishable. In the south, there are militias starting to rise up to combat it.

I think the statement that criminal gangs are in control of territory on our border is a fair statement. My personal opinion is that it is going to take extreme measures to resolve it, and that unless there is radical change within the governments at all levels throughout Mexico, they will not be the ones enacting those extreme measures.

With absolutely no merit on my part, I tend to aquire friends that are in, or have been in the US military special forces. For reasons I cannot, obviously, link here, I know that our guys spend a lot of time sitting on hilltops and infiltrating places to watch and track bad guys there. I can, with no proof, provide you a unsupported tertiary telling of a story of a special forces dude who somehow missed a pick up and had to sneak back across the border. Apparently it was a consternation for the Border Patrol and is funny in hindsight. So, I, personally, believe the US military and Homeland Secuity is very aware of "all" comings and goings in the areas you're mentioning. The problem is it goes from there to politicians who see the displaced people, casualties of war in your regard, as either future voters or extra hands to do low skilled labor. There are suggestions for resolution. There is no political will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'm not sure what you mean by "at least from our end," but it doesn't sound like what I meant. We are faced with criminal gangs in control of territory on our border. That is not acceptable. My suggestion was intended to convey that either Mexico re-establish sovereignty over those territories or we will, and I don't mean that we'll re-establish Mexico's sovereignty. When we're done, the border will be a little farther south.

If the same problem occurs again, then the process will continue until Mexico is reduced to a size its government is capable of exercising sovereignty over. If you're right about the government and the gangs being indistinguishable from each other, I'm fine with that being zero.

K.

In some areas, the government and gangs are that indistinguishable. In the south, there are militias starting to rise up to combat it.

I think the statement that criminal gangs are in control of territory on our border is a fair statement. My personal opinion is that it is going to take extreme measures to resolve it, and that unless there is radical change within the governments at all levels throughout Mexico, they will not be the ones enacting those extreme measures.

With absolutely no merit on my part, I tend to aquire friends that are in, or have been in the US military special forces. For reasons I cannot, obviously, link here, I know that our guys spend a lot of time sitting on hilltops and infiltrating places to watch and track bad guys there. I can, with no proof, provide you a unsupported tertiary telling of a story of a special forces dude who somehow missed a pick up and had to sneak back across the border. Apparently it was a consternation for the Border Patrol and is funny in hindsight. So, I, personally, believe the US military and Homeland Secuity is very aware of "all" comings and goings in the areas you're mentioning. The problem is it goes from there to politicians who see the displaced people, casualties of war in your regard, as either future voters or extra hands to do low skilled labor. There are suggestions for resolution. There is no political will.

It is like the old saw about military intelligence being an oxymoron. Having worked in that community we would have to pass intelligence on to politicians who we would see a couple of days later quoting us as saying the exact opposite of what we said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


That is true, but throwing the borders open or giving the illegals any advantage over those who come here legally is a path to disaster.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'm not sure what you mean by "at least from our end," but it doesn't sound like what I meant. We are faced with criminal gangs in control of territory on our border. That is not acceptable. My suggestion was intended to convey that either Mexico re-establish sovereignty over those territories or we will, and I don't mean that we'll re-establish Mexico's sovereignty. When we're done, the border will be a little farther south.

If the same problem occurs again, then the process will continue until Mexico is reduced to a size its government is capable of exercising sovereignty over. If you're right about the government and the gangs being indistinguishable from each other, I'm fine with that being zero.

K.

In some areas, the government and gangs are that indistinguishable. In the south, there are militias starting to rise up to combat it.

I think the statement that criminal gangs are in control of territory on our border is a fair statement. My personal opinion is that it is going to take extreme measures to resolve it, and that unless there is radical change within the governments at all levels throughout Mexico, they will not be the ones enacting those extreme measures.

With absolutely no merit on my part, I tend to aquire friends that are in, or have been in the US military special forces. For reasons I cannot, obviously, link here, I know that our guys spend a lot of time sitting on hilltops and infiltrating places to watch and track bad guys there. I can, with no proof, provide you a unsupported tertiary telling of a story of a special forces dude who somehow missed a pick up and had to sneak back across the border. Apparently it was a consternation for the Border Patrol and is funny in hindsight. So, I, personally, believe the US military and Homeland Secuity is very aware of "all" comings and goings in the areas you're mentioning. The problem is it goes from there to politicians who see the displaced people, casualties of war in your regard, as either future voters or extra hands to do low skilled labor. There are suggestions for resolution. There is no political will.

It is like the old saw about military intelligence being an oxymoron. Having worked in that community we would have to pass intelligence on to politicians who we would see a couple of days later quoting us as saying the exact opposite of what we said.

Yes, which makes it so funny that just after Bin Laudin was killed Obama rushed down to celebrate with the SEAL team. I can promise you, from a first hand recounting, that the SEAL's were thinking, "What do you mean "us" dude," and, "Why don't you just go away so we can get back to the beers and the women?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
Everyone knows that we need some new ideas (I never had a good idea on immigration). All the Republicans do is demagogue. They say, they won't talk about it until we seal the border. Here is the reality: We will NEVER seal the border. It just isn't possible.


So now what???

How about giving a green card to any illegal/undocumented immigrant that has started a small business and has hired at least 1 American? A program like this would also encourage immigrant workers to to start businesses instead.. Immigrants do start small businesses and create jobs, but for those that do, unless they can make enough money ($1 million verifiable & in the bank) to qualify under an EB-5 visa to become legal, they are at extreme risk and so are their employees.. deportation means the business is wiped out and those jobs are gone..

"Immigrants Twice As Likely To Start Businesses As U.S.-Born Citizens"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/immigrants-new-businesses_n_1499719.html

http://www.latitudenews.com/story/americas-newest-small-town-entrepreneurs-illegal-immigrants/

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/14/nation/la-na-ff-immigration-business-20130915

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


That is true, but throwing the borders open or giving the illegals any advantage over those who come here legally is a path to disaster.

Agreed. I already stated that opening the floodgates was not the answer. And I don't advocate giving illegals any advantages over others. I just see that, at least when it comes to Mexico, immigrants are at a severe disadvantage when it comes to gaining asylum, to the point that it is futile to even attempt it. I have seen it firsthand. US born and bred, not a drop of Hispanic blood in my veins, but I have seen it firsthand and have been directly affected by the barriers that this particular population has to overcome to achieve legal residence. And were I in their shoes, I would be walking across the desert in a heartbeat, legal status be damned. Because I know it would be a waste of time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
With absolutely no merit on my part, I tend to aquire friends that are in, or have been in the US military special forces. For reasons I cannot, obviously, link here, I know that our guys spend a lot of time sitting on hilltops and infiltrating places to watch and track bad guys there.

quote:

I can, with no proof, provide you a unsupported tertiary telling of a story of a special forces dude who somehow missed a pick up and had to sneak back across the border. Apparently it was a consternation for the Border Patrol and is funny in hindsight.