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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/26/2016 12:50:20 PM

LilJuly76

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before we closed the club here ours was 10 dollars per couple, 20 dollars on special event nights, accept there was one special event it was a bit more because they were out of towners. Yes in Canada as well.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/26/2016 1:25:21 PM

WickedsDesire

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I forewarned what would happened.
I asked him do you remember, more than once, why you started this place. And I wrote many a recommendation.

I have not seen the statement - I have asked some of you to post it on here - so I can have a bit of read...I could log on but I am not prepared to do so after far too many runs in with sophists and defenders of them.

And then I will refer people to this thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_4932041/tm.htm - splendid contribution ladypact
your schizophrenia is testing even me..what makes you dangerous, more so than even the socks, is you presume to be knowledgeable and speak for the lifestyle. You do not. I do. Which is why those who do not hate me and would steel all my cake (you are on your last warning with me btw - you should know better)

fetish hmm
lifestyle is by far the better word, rainbow is btter

as for Munches and clubs - only 1 per 1000 on fetlife will ever attend one...does that make the rest fake ladypact? - Not that I, a man with 3 cats, hold you in high regard

as for John hmm I think he started it with noble intentions...perhaps he is re realising this - I hope he is. But he is surrounded by sophism and cannot differentiate from it

Monetary element - I will not speak for him unless I know his mind on that.
and cavity stretching with a sherman
Now back to clubs and munches in your area - you will find them on google. Single, married, not looking, looking for cock imprisonment, - the lot of you are welcome, and made to feel welcome....

slippernotes

he knows how to get me
I offered my services and time free of charge more than a few times
I will not spake to anyone below care taker level - he knows why

Ah slipper note two
the price was muffin...if he could not afford it i would buy it

sites hmmmm - the userbase is a site

The only solution for that place, this place was lost long ago, is for him delete the full she bang and have everyone rejoin again - wo they accept is up to them

there are no other solutions

I should prpb mail him this one perhaps one of you should for me? wo will it be i wonder

I do not break these sites...the opposite of my kind do

< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 7/26/2016 1:30:23 PM >

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/26/2016 10:41:10 PM

Bhruic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

I have not seen the statement - I have asked some of you to post it on here - so I can have a bit of read...I could log on but I am not prepared to do so after far too many runs in with sophists and defenders of them.

I thought I saw you post in the Announcement thread on Fet? What you were saying though, I couldn't decipher.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/26/2016 11:10:16 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
First... some valid points made in your other comments :)

If you are talking about the announcement thread on Fet, I have read every post up to page 28.

I saw people that said that they would never have joined Fet, or have been able to join, if it was invitation only. And I have seen people that said that they could not afford to support Fetlife in order to obtain invites for their friends.

Honestly though, Fetlife is $5 CDN a month if you were paying. I find it a bit hard to believe that people who can afford a computer and an internet connection could not muster $5 a month for something they really enjoy, and spend a lot of time doing.

I have heard the same complaint from people - at munches - while they drink a $3 coke and eat a $10 burger... and they spend $7 round trip on the subway to get there.

If you find a place that allows you to really express who you are, and to find others locally that will welcome you in to an accepting community, but you actually can't afford $5 to have those things... then you must be living a terribly sad life indeed.

First, thank you for the compliment.

It's at about page 31 now, I think. There's some new stuff on it that I didn't think was great.

I do think that *some* people have it pretty strapped for resources, so I couldn't possibly say that everybody could afford even that. People on fixed incomes and such.

However, there is the other side, too. There are some people who are more affluent who can swing that thirty dollars every six months. I have no idea how many people actually 'support' Fetlife financially but I'm guessing most could if they wanted to.

It's kind of ironic. I can't tell you how many times I've read comments both here and there from people who said they'd gladly donate to the site(s) if they would do things like get rid of the bots, spammers, trolls, troublemakers, etc, etc. If this policy helps to make that happen, or at least reduce it, I wonder how many will follow through with that promise.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/26/2016 11:23:56 PM

Bhruic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It's kind of ironic. I can't tell you how many times I've read comments both here and there from people who said they'd gladly donate to the site(s) if they would do things like get rid of the bots, spammers, trolls, troublemakers, etc, etc. If this policy helps to make that happen, or at least reduce it, I wonder how many will follow through with that promise.
[/color]

The problem they are going to experience is in the completely ham fisted way they have gone about it. If they had simply announced that a paid gateway was the most effective way to solve all these problems, and that all existing members would continue to have free memberships, then it probably would have gone over fine. It would not have seemed exclusive or elitist, and current members would have felt rewarded for their loyalty and support.

But the way they have approach this has made members feel betrayed and angry, and used (and not in the good way)... and it is hard to get people back from that.

I still think a paid gateway is where they are eventually heading... but it is going to be a hard sell. They have been relying on the fact that it is free for a long time as a defense for the quality of the product they have been providing. People that pay are going to want better features, and they are going to want them to work, and work well.

On the other topic... Maybe I'm just a heartless old f@^k... but for the people who can't muster $5 a month for a luxury, the world is just an unending supply of luxuries they cannot afford. You don't hear people suggesting that chocolate bar companies, or beer companies, or cigarette companies, or ice cream companies should reduce the price of their product to zero, because it's just not fair that some people can't afford it. Why should it be any different for an internet based company? Especially if they provide a valuable service that costs them money to provide.

< Message edited by Bhruic -- 7/26/2016 11:44:04 PM >

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/26/2016 11:40:56 PM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I still think a paid gateway is where they are eventually heading... but it is going to be a hard sell. They have been relying on the fact that it is free for a long time as a defense for the quality of the product they have been providing. People that pay are going to want better features, and they are going to want them to work, and work well.

Also, there are going to be people who will be of the: "If-I-have-to-pay-to-be-here-here's-what-I-want" mindset. Probably rightly so.

Why would anyone pay for a product that doesn't meet their needs or standards. Just one example: I know a half a dozen people that can't spend more than a few minutes on that site because of the background. Fet isn't going to get them to pay.

Transitioning from a free service to a paid service is often problematic because the perceived value just isn't there.

That's a double-edged sword, of course because people that have been there forever and gone through all the dross of a free site will feel slighted. "Oh! Now they have the site working and looking really well and they're done with me unless I pay them?!?!?!"

Imagine if that was done, here, for example. With the history this place has, how many would feel confident enough in paid access truly being an "up-grade"? I know I wouldn't.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/26/2016 11:53:34 PM

Bhruic

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I totally agree. Whatever they are planning on doing, if they try to convert previously free members to paid members, they will essentially be committing suicide.

Based on the sad degree of marketing savvy so far though, I wouldn't put it past them.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/27/2016 3:06:37 AM

NookieNotes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
Drive and determination are critical components for success, but what you also need is excellent UX design targeted at the specific needs of the individuals in the community, real, professional, programmers that can handle the features and security you need and can work in a continuous integration development framework, and money... a fair chunk of money.

The hobby sites, made with off the shelf tools, ultimately crumble under their own weight.

Yes. This, exactly.

FetLife's UX/UI sucks, but it sucks WAY LESS than the other sites out there in the genre.

And no hobbyist is going to know what to do when they have the success they hope for, and reach the 100,000 member mark, because their servers will have maxed out WAY before then.

That said, there are ways. If someone takes the time.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/27/2016 3:20:53 AM

focalss

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I haven't seen the actual announcement and only am responding to what I see here.

My complaint with Fet is that it is not designed to meet people. There are a lot of inactive members and I'm close to being one of them.

I wouldn't pay because it doesn't do what I want it to do if I paid. I guess also I'm used to having most things on the internet be free. I don't pay for access to the NY Times and I click through to their articles less and less.

In a few ways I'm surprised they didn't do this before, I was on Bondage.com for a while and now look at it.

The thing I might pay for would be personals site that let you actually search on live members to date. Oh, gee, I guess Ashley Madison put a stop to that with all the fake "entertainment" profiles.

< Message edited by focalss -- 7/27/2016 3:21:39 AM >

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/27/2016 3:27:26 AM

NookieNotes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

Hey Nookie! :)

Hey hi!

*smiles*

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
A nominal paid subscription would mostly solve all their problems... But they should have the guts to simply announce that honestly. Tell existing members that they will enjoy the benefit of continued free membership, but that new members must pay to join.

That probably would have went over about as well as a fart in church, too.

I know you're on the thread. Can't say how much of it you've read but there's a goods share of people who have written about if it was pay to join when they first found it they wouldn't have or they are too broke to contribute financially. That solution would have made a bunch of people unhappy, too.

Have to agree with this. There is a balance for free vs. paid options that needs to be struck.

Fet is CURRENTLY making over $24,000/month on advertising alone. That does not cover the astronomical salaries they are paying themselves and offering others for not changing much of anything in the past 4 years.

It seems to me that they have bloated their team, while avoiding the basic coding that could help protect their members and save them LOTS of man hours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I personally think it is a manufactured "crisis" , and a totally unworkable "solution" designed to soften people up for the eventual introduction of a paid only subscription format.

I agree. I've only been on there for a relatively short time (about 2 years). The spamming, trolling, etc. has been going on since I've been there. If this was truly the reason for the change, I would think that it would have been implemented a while ago.

It may be. That said, I've been seeing more bots on fet recently. And remember what the troll situation was like here for a while... when I took a break, it was in high dudgeon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LilJuly76

maybe if the background wasn't black I would shell out $5

I really dislike the black background. It's way more cool than functional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

It may seem unfair, but it is unrealistic to expect a service business that has overhead to focus entirely on a demographic with zero disposable income.

There are many many free, albeit inferior, resources on the web for that market.

Don't know if you or anyone else knows the answer to this, but I wonder, if the move to a paid service is "necessary", how has Fet been surviving all these years without it?

Investors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
Well... they recently made some announcement about losing their targeted advertising supplier... which doesn't sound good, and seems to have eliminated small local advertisers. And over the last few years the membership has been complaining about reduced features (like the elimination of kinky chat) and extremely slow site performance.

Fetlife has been (or at least says they have been) hiring programming staff to handle the issues, but performance has not significantly increased, and features that were cancelled have not been restored, and some added "features" were very poorly implemented and unpopular. I think all that may have resulted in decreasing support from disgruntled paid members.

But that's just my perspective.

The ad situation has hurt them. They are now making between $24-$28k per month on advertising. They have reduced what small advertisers can do, and they are not looking for a way to change that.

The prices have gone up by only about $100/month, which might be worth it from smaller advertisers, but they have limited spots now that they don't do any targeting at all, geographic or otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

My only issue with Fet is they claim to be "completely free" and yet give all sorts of perks to those who pay.

I think this is awesome. You can use the site for free just fine. It is functional, and you are on the same level as everyone else who does not pay, able to communicate and meet people.

It is completely free—for everyone who chooses not to pay.

It's more like a donation than anything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

Yes... but to attract advertisers, your members have to buy stuff. If you focus your business model on people with no disposable income, that's not going to have a positive effect on your ability to attract ad dollars.

A good service business always has to be thriving, improving and expanding... and to do that you need revenue and growth.

When you look at sites that have rapid initial growth, and then collapse... that is why. It's due to a bad business model.

No offense, but the people with no disposable income are probably going to be the least likely to understand that.

Exactly this.

That said, sometimes it's that they don't want to pay for the site, but are wiling to pay for porn (like here on CS, for a while).

quote:

ORIGINAL: LilJuly76

before we closed the club here ours was 10 dollars per couple, 20 dollars on special event nights, accept there was one special event it was a bit more because they were out of towners. Yes in Canada as well.

Our model was $20/member and $15/supporting member, and we packed the place every Friday and Saturday.

The money is out there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It's kind of ironic. I can't tell you how many times I've read comments both here and there from people who said they'd gladly donate to the site(s) if they would do things like get rid of the bots, spammers, trolls, troublemakers, etc, etc. If this policy helps to make that happen, or at least reduce it, I wonder how many will follow through with that promise.

I donate so they can... *smiles*

quote:

ORIGINAL: focalss

My complaint with Fet is that it is not designed to meet people.

<snip>

The thing I might pay for would be personals site that let you actually search on live members to date. Oh, gee, I guess Ashley Madison put a stop to that with all the fake "entertainment" profiles.

Fet is kinky Facebook. CS or Alt are supposed to be kinky Match.

Fet has specifically said they WILL NOT be a dating site for reasons, and I think that's good, for how they have built themselves.

< Message edited by NookieNotes -- 7/27/2016 3:28:31 AM >

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/27/2016 3:37:34 AM

focalss

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I wonder how other sites are doing with advertising. $28K per mo isn't good for a site with that many members. I have to wonder at what is going on there or the internet in general. Maybe I'll join Facebook before they start charging. Nah.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/27/2016 5:21:19 AM

LilJuly76

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I really dislike the black background. It's way more cool than functional.

for me it's because I have one blind eye so it's hard for me to read anything over there, I really have to strain. I haven't been here long but good to see you back Nookie.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/27/2016 6:00:43 AM

NookieNotes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: focalss
I wonder how other sites are doing with advertising. $28K per mo isn't good for a site with that many members. I have to wonder at what is going on there or the internet in general. Maybe I'll join Facebook before they start charging. Nah.

Well, they lost their advertising program. Apparently, when losing it, the best option they could set up was the one they have.

It's sad, but it's on them to create better through programming.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LilJuly76
for me it's because I have one blind eye so it's hard for me to read anything over there, I really have to strain. I haven't been here long but good to see you back Nookie.

Even if you didn't, it's backwards from easy reading standards.

Thanks! It's good to be back. *smiles*

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/27/2016 7:01:36 AM

WickedsDesire

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It would appear this is the only true free site that remains standing And yet I have saw no increase in the database over the years, why is that anyone? Sure that irks me immensely to this very day.

5 million users did not migrate from here, or alt – but they did from swinging and affair sites and sex sites and the attached and cheating lot on single sites

Network hmmm it is impossible to network with a lie, a cheat, a predator, stolen pictures, sophistry and so on – they will tell you differently

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/27/2016 12:08:39 PM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell

~~That's interesting. What was the reason Fet stopped accepting members?~~
NVM found it. I've said it before... KinkyToo had made some good headway on that site... It's a damn shame whatever happened to make them lose interest. It could have been big.

We didn't lose interest.

Life (as in the stuff that pays the bills, and family problems) got in the way of being able to do it right. You wouldn't believe how much time goes into building something like that, and considering that we had a shit-hitting-the-fan movement on both the family and the job front, we decided that it'd be better to not do it at that time at all, rather than do it poorly (too many, small, random, bad kink sites out there already).

It's tabled for future re-attempt when things settle down enough that it can have the attention it deserves.

Thank you for thinking of us though.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/27/2016 12:16:32 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: focalss
I haven't seen the actual announcement and only am responding to what I see here.

My complaint with Fet is that it is not designed to meet people. There are a lot of inactive members and I'm close to being one of them.

I wouldn't pay because it doesn't do what I want it to do if I paid. I guess also I'm used to having most things on the internet be free. I don't pay for access to the NY Times and I click through to their articles less and less.

In a few ways I'm surprised they didn't do this before, I was on Bondage.com for a while and now look at it.

The thing I might pay for would be personals site that let you actually search on live members to date. Oh, gee, I guess Ashley Madison put a stop to that with all the fake "entertainment" profiles.

That's the thing. It's not a personals site and it was never intended to be one.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/28/2016 2:49:27 AM

Bhruic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: focalss
I haven't seen the actual announcement and only am responding to what I see here.

My complaint with Fet is that it is not designed to meet people. There are a lot of inactive members and I'm close to being one of them.

I wouldn't pay because it doesn't do what I want it to do if I paid. I guess also I'm used to having most things on the internet be free. I don't pay for access to the NY Times and I click through to their articles less and less.

In a few ways I'm surprised they didn't do this before, I was on Bondage.com for a while and now look at it.

The thing I might pay for would be personals site that let you actually search on live members to date. Oh, gee, I guess Ashley Madison put a stop to that with all the fake "entertainment" profiles.

That's the thing. It's not a personals site and it was never intended to be one.

Actually, if you read the creator of Fetlife's description of why he created it (Then "Friends with Fetishes" FWF 2.0)...

" I pretty much created FWF because I was extremely horny with many fetishes I needed to act on and many more I still wanted to try. The problem was I was not sure their were any girls out their that had the same perverted ways as me. Like a female John. Let me rephrase that, I knew their were girls out their who had the same fetishes as me but they were far and few between and I was not sure how many slaps I could take before just giving up asking. So I figured, their must be a better way and I created FWF."

It sure sounds to me like it WAS intended as a kinky personals site!

I think that when it was first created, it was so small it didn't need a search feature, and then later when membership took off, they didn't know how to implement a search feature properly... and so the fiction that it was never intended as a dating site was born.

And it is certainly a fiction! Any social network, any community, NEEDS an effective way for people to find their peers, in order to FORM a community. And anytime you get a community of like minded people coming together, people will make romantic connections... ESPECIALLY when the mutual interest is sexual.

Interestingly... back then in 2008, FWF 2.0 was invitation only... which apparently didn't work. So much for learning from one's mistakes.

< Message edited by Bhruic -- 7/28/2016 3:16:35 AM >

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/28/2016 4:05:05 AM

kiwisub22

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I met my first serious relationship on collarme. and after he died, collarme was no more *sigh*

I had to find another way of meeting kinky local men.

I tried using fetlife and had absolutely no luck, largely in part because it is so not an intuitive site. There is not a lot of logic to the way its designed. I found my sweetie on adultfriendfinders with a profile that was fairly explicit in what I wanted. Oddly enough for a site that isn't really about kink, I got a lot of responses, and it certainly wasn't because i'm gorgous.
I haven't been back there in 5 or 6 years, so really can't say what its like now, but slightly off topic sites may work well for others.

I'm a fet member, but am one of the relatively inactive ones. I go online to fet to check out local groups for party dates and that would be about it. If the site was easier to find stuff, it would be a different idea. Even discussion groups are not laid out in a easy to find - or read fashion. One of the reasons i'm so glad to see a revival of collarme.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/28/2016 5:24:55 AM

NookieNotes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I think that when it was first created, it was so small it didn't need a search feature, and then later when membership took off, they didn't know how to implement a search feature properly... and so the fiction that it was never intended as a dating site was born.

They may have originally intended that, but a first year coder could have put ASL search, or something like it, into place.

They have chosen, specifically and repeatedly, not to.

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RE: How to find kinky people without Fet - 7/28/2016 10:08:44 AM

Kiki71

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I've looked for an app @DocStrange . Nothing yet.

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