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RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 11:34:59 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Since you didn't answer the questions, I'll reask: What if wearing a burqa is part of their religious practice? Are the not allowed to wear them in public?

I did answer it.
I said: It's a security risk that the french have passed a law on.
And no, you can't wear it in public in France.
Which is why I commented earlier that religious freedom can only go so far.


It's also a privacy issue. The French must be even more paranoid than us over here.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Are you going to STFU about US policies, or is it just refugees going to France that are the ones that aren't allowed to attempt any changes?

In this case (in France) it has nothing to do with refugees.
The French government have said that repressive Islamic dress code infringes upon French national identity.


Repressive Islamic dress code infringes on the French national identity?!? What right do the French have to state what is allowed and what isn't allowed as part of a religion, when it's not infringing on anyone else's rights?

I'm quite glad I live in the US. I'll accept the bad stuff while we try to fix it for the good stuff any day.

quote:

And again - it has nothing to do with US policies Desi!!
It's the French and ONLY the French.


Right. There are no lessons that cross over from one country to another. You support "foreigners" not changing the way France runs, but you appear to have comments and criticisms of the US (in other threads)? Hypocrite much?

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

And I am advocating that we shouldn't cow-tow to foreign influence if it fundamentally changes the country.

After they become citizens and start voting, it would no longer be "foreign influence," now would it?
Or are you using the word 'foreign' to mean 'different than what is current?'

If there are enough of them voting to get some Sharia laws passed (which I doubt), then fair enough.
And I'm using the term 'foreign' to mean an influence that is not conducive to A) what is current; and B) what is considered to be an 'outside' influence.


If the Sharia laws they want passed aren't against the basics of the French government, then, yeah, if they get enough people to support it, then it should pass.

quote:

So by your logic, if there are enough registered mexicans to make a difference in the fundamental laws and society of the USA, it is no longer 'foreign' because they've done from the inside??
Meh!


If there are enough legal US citizens that vote in support of a change that isn't against the US Constitution (and the change falls under the authority of the Federal Government), then, that change should happen. There is this "consent of the governed" thing here. As long as a thing isn't un-Constitutional and it falls under the authorities of the Federal Government, if enough people support it, then government should do it. So, if enough people are for single payer health care, they can pass an Amendment granting authority to the Federal Government, and then we can go about setting up single payer health care. Until then, though, it won't matter how many people support it, until an Amendment is passed.



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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 11:54:06 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I'm going to go ahead and guess it's not the wetsuit that makes that pic sexy to you. lol

Lol! It actually does play a part. As a kid on Long Island, some of my first flickerings of what I might like came from seeing the surfers in, yes, their wet suits.

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 1:22:36 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Picking out an unlawful incident and extrapolating that to the judiciary is ridiculous"

Don't confuse him with logic. It's just not fair.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 1:41:49 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		~FR~

According to the mayor's declaration the purpose of the burka beach ban is for security reasons. So, no burkas on the beach. Could be deadly Are burkas allowed on the streets? And the ban only lasts until the end of August. Do burkas become items of peace and love as the weather changes? How does that work?

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 1:47:42 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Not at all dc.
I don't suport a law that enforces immodesty as you put it.

You are missing the point. The moslems think that dressing in a butt floss bikini/any bathing suit that shows skin is indecent and you would force them to dress like that if they wanted to use western beaches.

If they want to live in the west, why should that not be a reasonable thing to expect??
It's part of our customs and society.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to fit in.
If they don't like it, don't go to the beach.


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
You wear a T-shirt which is quite acceptable western garb.

But a black t-shirt that went from neck to toe would not?

If there was a choice in it, then fair enough.
The fact is, their menfolk forbid it - that's the difference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
But it is quite a different matter when the menfolk insist (with punishment of beating and even death by their beliefs) that their womenfolk cover up completely.
The crux of the problem is, it is 'as they see it' by their less than liberal standards compared to the 'usual' standards that we in the west accept as being normal.

If the number of battered womens shelters is any indication westerners beat their wives and s/o on a pretty significant bassis. Have you thought of comparing your battering rates to theirs?
There is a fellow in town from over there who beat the hell out of his wife for what ever reason. For his first offense he got two years. Now because he is a solid businessman with strong ties to the community and a middle class tax payer he was allowed to do his time on weekends. He also spent about 10k on court ordered counseling and a promise from the judge that if he ever put his hands on his wife again he was going to state prison for 10 years.
That was back in 92...he was a quick study and has yet to put his hands on his wife in anger. It is not dna it is ignorance. Once it is explained most folks get it.

And there you go again - comparing unlawful incidents with what in their religion is brutally enforced.

Yes, we have women's shelters here too.
They are there because there are a large number of redneck asshats that believe in mistreating women.
The difference is, it is not part of our judicial or social structure to have those beatings as part of normal life and be legal; Islam does.

Given the same situation, under our laws, the guy gets hauled into court and usually punished.
Under Islamic laws, that abysmal behaviour is not only expected but encouraged. In many cases, the women would get a further punishment for disobedience.

It's a completely different ball of wax.
Or can't you see that??
Or perhaps, like many westerners, they don't get to see what really happens behind closed doors inside a Muslim household.



Again, it's not nice to confuse him with logic.

He is too fucked in the head to realize that the major difference is whether society and law condone such things, or punish them.

You beat your olady in the US you go to jail, you probably lose your job and have to just give her the house and pay for it, but you are now barred from many good jobs because of the background check. You also are no longer allowed to have a gun. If you have kids you are even more fucked because without a good job to support yourself AND pay child support you can't even legally drive a car anymore. They'll take your license. And of the limited jobs in this country, now you can't get half of them.

In Muslim countries you can cut the nose off a young girl, or throw acid in her face simply for going to school. I think there is a little difference there.

As far as I am concerned, I do not want those people here at all. I say make them eat pork to get in, totally renounce that fucked up religion. And don't give me this Constitution shit, the Constitution only applies to US Citizen, which they are not - yet. Eat that BLT and THEN fill out this form. And there is a picture of Mohammed on it. Denounce or stay the fuck home.

And this is not like France a long time ago which forced the Jews to accept Christ or die, which resulted in the Kol Nidre I think. I am just talking about not letting them in.

Freedom of religion applies to us, not them unless and until they become citizens. Unfair ? Well life isn't fair, who around here didn't get the memo ?

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 1:53:57 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Freedom of religion applies to us, not them unless and until they become citizens.

Oh, soooo fucking wrong. The 14th Amendment wraps the first five amendments at least around all PERSONS under the jurisdiction of the states.

Not citizens. Lemme say that again: persons, not citizens

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 2:05:25 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1




If I remember my history correctly amerika had a pretty similar prohibition against alcohol. Do you have any idea how that worked out?



Yeah, the found out it doesn't work and the People did not want it so they wrote another amendment to repeal it. But what that has to do with Saudi Arabia is a mystery to me.

I think those people just don't want to drink, in the US speakeasies popped up everywhere. They made plenty of money just like they do now on drugs. I heard that Orientals, though their countries don't really ban alcohol, they get sick on it. Just a difference in body chemistry I guess.

But it is ridiculous for a country to ban alcohol and allow rape. Shit, the Women probably totally support the ban because there would be more rape if these motherfuckers were drunk. They can't control themselves when sober ! In fact I heard that Women supported prohibition in this country, which proves they have no right to govern. The government has no right to tell me what I can ingest, period.

Over there, well I am not going over there.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 2:09:41 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Talking of fitting in, when I’ve been to Egypt, Turkey and Tunisia I’ve seen plenty of topless western women on the beaches and an equal amount of women looking round the ancient tourist sites in micro shorts and halter neck tops.
"

They are not Muslim. Plus those were tourist traps and most countries are lax with their custom and law in such places. Which proves they like money as well.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 2:24:13 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Howz about last week when my wife was chastised by a young Muslim boy for smoking in public and not covering up her face because 'it's not allowed'?
As I've said a few times now, not all of this is media reporting; some of it is personal. "

Sounds like you better get her a gun and teach her how to shoot.

Reasoning - If this kid has the chutzpah to disrespect his elders like that he is probably radicalized. He probably has a radicalized Father who ight seek to kill her or beat her.

I am not saying all Muslims are like that, but the fact that he opened his mouth like is an indication that he and his family are.

Actually there was a time when guys said "I hate to see a Woman smoking in public" but they did not act on that, they did not say anything, and they didn't hit on her figuring she had no class. Others would do something and I hope you haven't run across those type of assholes. Shooting people really is a big problem. Dealing with the police and all that. I really prefer not to do it.

Back when I was 20 I would go confront this kid's Father and tell him that he not in a Muslim (Moslem back then) country and has to adapt, and his kid did something considered rude here. I know your male kids boss around their Mothers since age five, but that is not how it is here. Get fucking used to it or get the fuck out. And if anything ever happens, I MEAN ANYTHING, you are fucking dead. So you better protect my olady.

But that was then. This is now. If I knew where the kid lived I would go confront the Father, but these days I probably wouldn't take a gun. (in my 20s I actually had a machine gun)

Be careful with those motherfuckers when they get that way. I hope your olady told the little SOB "Get the fuck away from me, and in this country, you do not tell me what the fuck to do".

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 2:32:01 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

~FR~

According to the mayor's declaration the purpose of the burka beach ban is for security reasons. So, no burkas on the beach. Could be deadly Are burkas allowed on the streets? And the ban only lasts until the end of August. Do burkas become items of peace and love as the weather changes? How does that work?


ah...now dress codes!

the ongoing establishment of da us gubblemints religion.

Muslim dress code is not allowed but gubblemint dress codes fully enforced!

how does it work? the us is a religion and you either follow the divine law or they will toss yer ass in jail.

Lets US pray, pun intended

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 2:47:27 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

~FR~

According to the mayor's declaration the purpose of the burka beach ban is for security reasons. So, no burkas on the beach. Could be deadly Are burkas allowed on the streets? And the ban only lasts until the end of August. Do burkas become items of peace and love as the weather changes? How does that work?


I don't know but I think it was wrong in the first place. I think they are not all that logical, or something. They pass anti-Semitism laws yet refuse aid from Israel to prevent terrorist acts, which some think would have worked this last time. They refused to let US jets fly over their airspace to attack Libya I think, many years ago, and then modify Saddam's computers so his SAMs wouldn't launch when the US almost carpet bombed Iraq. Maybe there is still some ergot in their bread. I don't know.

Another thing, what about winter when it gets cold ? Ever see a ski mask ? Those illegal too ?

Yeah, and it is only until the end of August.

Well if it can be made a law for a couple of months it can be made a law forever. The old adage "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile" has become "Give them a femtometer and they will take a parsec".

I'll throw in a little here. In the US they generally charge you a fee to get court documents, like transcripts and whatnot. Well you can get them for free. You send a letter stating something to the effect that "If you can charge a dollar you can charge a thousand and bar justice from the poor. That violates the Constitution because we are all supposed to have equal justice. Therefore I request that my documents be prepared with no fee".

Plus the fact that tax dollars already paid for that paper and toner. And even if it has to be notarized, if you used the fact that you are a notary on your resume' or job application, well you are on company time here so get your squisher out and stamp it. Free.

Anyway, in the US, not sure if it is federal or not but at least some places if you are involved with a protest you are not allowed to wear any costume that obscures your face. It does not apply to everyday walking down the street, but if they can make it a law under certain circumstances they can make it a law under all circumstances.

But people won't fight. They'll rejoice when the crackheads next door get busted, while they smoke a joint. They care not about the rights of others, only their own. And that is our undoing.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 2:52:28 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Freedom of religion applies to us, not them unless and until they become citizens.

Oh, soooo fucking wrong. The 14th Amendment wraps the first five amendments at least around all PERSONS under the jurisdiction of the states.

Not citizens. Lemme say that again: persons, not citizens


Disagree. If so, why aren't we out getting Saudi Arabian Women the right to vote and drive a car ? Because US Citizens living in Saudi Arabia do retain their Constitutional rights, why not everyone ?

Persons under the jurisdiction means Citizens.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 3:18:50 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

if you want to leave Mexico to escape {insert whatever reason here}, don't pick another place in the world and expect to find (or to impose) a mini-Mexico wherever you choose to relocate to.

Isn't that exactly what Europeans did in North America and the British in India?

ETA: Hell, Martinborough, N.Z., was actually laid out to resemble a Union Jack!


DC

John Martin emigrated after his parents died and worked his way up from being a labourer. It wasnt unusual for anyone starting a town to name it after themself or places from home. I do believe it happened a lot in the US...

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RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 3:20:25 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You are aware that the Europeans came to these places as invaders, not refugees?


Youre talking shit again Bama. Its the drawback from your insular outlook and lack of schooling.

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RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 3:24:06 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

@
I am a strong believer that those who wish to relocate themselves to another country should fully integrate into the society they have chosen to live in.
That means adopting the local customs, accepting the food, the dress code, attitude etc etc.
By all means allow them the freedom to practice their religion in private as long as it is within the legalities of the land they have settled in.

Wow!


Wow is way too polite Maria.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 3:34:49 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

There is not a single link I can cite.

It's not my opinion but several (read that as many) news items that have been broadcast on various media outlets.
It has also been aired on French TV when they've had clashes between French citizens and other French Muslims.
Some of it is based on actual personal testimony from my local Muslims here and also where I used to live.

Maybe American news is so biased that this sort of stuff doesn't make it to the viewing public; but it's been here on the BBC and other news media broadcasts.

See parts of my post#32 where we (personally) have been subjected to insults and moronic comments for not following Islamic rules.



FD stop embarrassing yourself. Your list of things we supposedly allow is bollocks, I know it and you should either know it or look it up. Ignorant right wing Americans can use the fact they dont know English Law, YOU have no excuse though. if you cant use google properly walk into your local Library. I will post the list below.

quote:

Posted by FD

That they allow Sharia law in its entirety as part of our legal system.
That it be legal to beat their women if they are displeased with something they have done.
That their blasphemy laws be integrated into ours.
To allow and respect 'honour killings'.
To restrict women to the home with no right to education.
To ban our western style of dress and to adhere to their 'cover up' rules.
To have total control over their women as they do in Islamic countries.
To put religion above the law of the land; religion first, law second.
And that's just a few I can think of off the top of my head.


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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 4:37:54 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

"That they allow Sharia law in its entirety as part of our legal system. "

It isn't their perogative what to allow and what not to allow.

"That it be legal to beat their women if they are displeased with something they have done. "

Unfortunately from what I have seen the courts are lenient on them because of their upbringing. I would be tougher on them to teach them that when they come here they adopt our ways.

"That their blasphemy laws be integrated into ours. "

I think freedom of religion was written into the Magna Carta. It certainly was into our first amendment. That means the freedom to be Muslim, and it also means freedom to not be Muslim.

"To allow and respect 'honour killings'.

Fucking try it. In almost every western country if you kill someone who is not a criminal intentionally YOU are a criminal and we'll be happy to pay for the lethal injection. (how many Muslims go to Texas ? I bet not many)

"To restrict women to the home with no right to education. "

Again, stay home. You are not like the Blacks who were brought here by force, against their will. Women have actually had some achievements, probably more than the two billion Muslims.

"To ban our western style of dress and to adhere to their 'cover up' rules. "

We used to but found out that doesn't work so well. I am looking for Muslim Women to start killing male babies and all kinds of nasty things. As they execute those Women there will be less and less of them. Then they won't be overpopulating the planet like a bunch of n____s.

"To put religion above the law of the land; religion first, law second. "

The republican party can't get that done, what kind of idiots are they to think they can ?

All religion is bullshit. You should be learning about the world and science, and how to deal with it. And gaining skill. Not segregating yourselves into groups based on what your preacher says.

And not all Muslims are like that. I do not agree with this not allowed to cover up your face in public bullshit but I see it as an act of paranoia from a government that is associated closely with the US government which is creating these terrorists by bombing their families. And the French as a whole, are pussies. Not every Frenchman, but for whatever reason they elect pussy governments. They would pass a law against certain hairstyles if they thought it would make them safer. Maybe next July they will have a law against turbans.

And that is another thing, in some countries the sun is so damn hot that this covering up protects you. Look at the Men, they are pretty well damn covered. That is because the sun can burn their skin, just like us. And when it happens to them it is worse.

Not that I give a shit.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 8/14/2016 4:43:30 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 7:58:59 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Freedom of religion applies to us, not them unless and until they become citizens.

Oh, soooo fucking wrong. The 14th Amendment wraps the first five amendments at least around all PERSONS under the jurisdiction of the states.

Not citizens. Lemme say that again: persons, not citizens


Disagree. If so, why aren't we out getting Saudi Arabian Women the right to vote and drive a car ? Because US Citizens living in Saudi Arabia do retain their Constitutional rights, why not everyone ?

Persons under the jurisdiction means Citizens.

T^T

apologies for my strong language The US Constitution protects persons who are on American soil from actions by American Federal, State, and Local jurisdictions.You don't need to make hypothetical circumstance. Just read words "persons" in the equal protection Clause and in the due process clause of the 14th,

More bad news, bro: get your ass arrested in Saudi Arabia you have no, none, zero, zilch. nada protection under the US Constitution.

Hard to believe i actually had to inform you of all that. Holy Shit!

< Message edited by vincentML -- 8/14/2016 8:53:44 PM >

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 9:09:53 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

If there are enough legal US citizens that vote in support of a change that isn't against the US Constitution (and the change falls under the authority of the Federal Government), then, that change should happen. There is this "consent of the governed" thing here. As long as a thing isn't un-Constitutional and it falls under the authorities of the Federal Government, if enough people support it, then government should do it.


There is no mechanism for poplar referendum in the Federal governing process. Sorry about that.

_____________________________

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Go France - 8/14/2016 9:20:27 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

We used to but found out that doesn't work so well. I am looking for Muslim Women to start killing male babies and all kinds of nasty things. As they execute those Women there will be less and less of them. Then they won't be overpopulating the planet like a bunch of n____s.


Is that a good Christian solution?

Oh for the good old days when we had dunking stools, burning at the stake, hanging on the cross, crusades and inquisitions.

Market day was always so much more fun back then.

Now what? We hang out, smoke meth, and wait for deliveries from Amazon. What kind of market day is that? Boring. Wench! More meth dammit.



_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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