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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/12/2016 2:46:34 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


But if I had to guess I would say most women find Peon charming and delightful. Probably one of the main reasons you seem to dislike him so much. I doubt anyone would say the same about you.


*Thank you very much*, THB. :)

The truth is, though, that he's even less likely to convince me that I'm weak, insipid and tedious than he is of convincing me that that I lack the old smarts (especially in comparison to him). At bottom, he doesn't basically know where proper strength and confidence come from - and it's *that* that he really resents. I'm pretty sure he knows that as well as do I.



good point

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/12/2016 4:27:36 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

No, its not. Its fairly common across generations. And part of the problem in today's society, even as progressive as we all like to pretend we are.


I agree, that's why we still hear things like "boys shouldn't cry" and "take it like a man"


I actually find something appealing in that and I suspect many conservative libertarian types do too.


Which is why this thread is so necessary.

Also, maybe I am just being totally naive here, but does even this have to be a partisan battle? Is there anything that can be viewed as an actual human issue, rather than left/right or conservative/liberal? Or is humanity just generally secondary to politics?


um no---it's not "politics" nor is it a "partisan battle." its a statement from my social/political worldview that values toughness as opposed to tears.

how is my worldview somehow separate or distinct from my "humanity?"

and when you say "[this] is why this thread is so necessary"---I say, that's something you value, and I don't.

you want to suggest that conservative parents and liberal parents raise their kids the same when it comes to boys crying and men being men? or that conservative men and liberal men handle adversity the same?


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 12/12/2016 4:29:20 PM >

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/12/2016 4:56:45 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

No, its not. Its fairly common across generations. And part of the problem in today's society, even as progressive as we all like to pretend we are.


I agree, that's why we still hear things like "boys shouldn't cry" and "take it like a man"


I actually find something appealing in that and I suspect many conservative libertarian types do too.


Which is why this thread is so necessary.

Also, maybe I am just being totally naive here, but does even this have to be a partisan battle? Is there anything that can be viewed as an actual human issue, rather than left/right or conservative/liberal? Or is humanity just generally secondary to politics?


um no---it's not "politics" nor is it a "partisan battle." its a statement from my social/political worldview that values toughness as opposed to tears.

how is my worldview somehow separate or distinct from my "humanity?"

and when you say "[this] is why this thread is so necessary"---I say, that's something you value, and I don't.

you want to suggest that conservative parents and liberal parents raise their kids the same when it comes to boys crying and men being men? or that conservative men and liberal men handle adversity the same?


I don't think that the line dividing these things are as black and white as they were fifty years ago.

That said, what is your solution to the issue? Do you acknowledge that this kind attitude is part of the problem? If not, what factors do you see as creating this problem?

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/12/2016 5:40:08 PM   
bounty44


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Status: offline 		ive not followed the thread enough to comment on the issue at hand, but rather to say I find the sentiment of "that boys shouldn't cry" and "take it like a man" appealing.

is it possible such a posture might hurt an individual, perhaps, but on the whole, rugged stoicism is something admirable.

consider how/why spock, in the original series of star trek, was such a beloved character...and interestingly enough, how moved men were when he died at the end of wrath of khan.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 12/12/2016 5:45:48 PM >

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/12/2016 5:59:19 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

ive not followed the thread enough to comment on the issue at hand, but rather to say I find the sentiment of "that boys shouldn't cry" and "take it like a man" appealing.

is it possible such a posture might hurt an individual, perhaps, but on the whole, rugged stoicism is something admirable.

consider how/why spock, in the original series of star trek, was such a beloved character...and interestingly enough, how moved men were when he died at the end of wrath of khan.


As much as this seems like just a 'Man issue', i'd say it applies to females as well. I was raised to be strong and keep my emotions in check. Even as a young girl, crying was not encouraged. Strength and resiliance were embedded in me from a young age... thank goodness.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/12/2016 6:33:12 PM   
bounty44


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Status: offline 		sure, it can apply to anyone who was raised in such a way, or who has made a choice themselves towards it.

however, on the whole, and I cant imagine liberals who like to minimize differences between genders are going to like this---women are more prone to cry than men. some of that might indeed be nurture (and culture) but at least some of it is also by nature.

in fact, id say that's one of the impetus behind men striving to behave as they do, that is, to be "not women."

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 12/12/2016 6:39:10 PM >

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/12/2016 6:40:07 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

consider how/why spock, in the original series of star trek, was such a beloved character...and interestingly enough, how moved men were when he died at the end of wrath of khan.



Fuckin' spoiler alert, dude! You've triggered me!



Michael

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/12/2016 6:40:18 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

sure, it can apply to anyone who was raised in such a way, or who has made a choice themselves towards it.

however, on the whole, and I cant imagine liberals who like to minimize differences between genders are going to like this---women are more prone to cry than men. some of that might indeed be nurture (and culture) but at least some of it is also by nature.


Well sure that monthly hormonal thing can really mess you up for a few days... ; )

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/12/2016 7:36:08 PM   
Wayward5oul


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Status: offline 		Spock is fiction and and outdated anyway.

Read the thread. We are discussing how the perpetuation of these values hinders males from coming forth and reporting assaults.

As someone who still advocates for this type of cultural, what suggestions do you have?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

ive not followed the thread enough to comment on the issue at hand, but rather to say I find the sentiment of "that boys shouldn't cry" and "take it like a man" appealing.

is it possible such a posture might hurt an individual, perhaps, but on the whole, rugged stoicism is something admirable.

consider how/why spock, in the original series of star trek, was such a beloved character...and interestingly enough, how moved men were when he died at the end of wrath of khan.


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 9:59:31 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		fiction is both inspired by, and inspires "real life" and on the contrary, spock is far from outdated. he "lived" for many years in syndication, had his popularity reborn and increased with the advent of the movies, and most recently, with the star trek reboot.

I don't know that I have an answer, however, not having one to this particular problem is not mortal to my preferences as concerns what being a man means or looks like.

the best I could probably say is each individual would have to make his own determination as to reporting crimes wherein his masculinity has been harmed, navigating the catwalk between a desire for justice to be served on the criminal and to protect future innocents vs the personal & cultural degradation that typically accompanies such reporting.

I imagine that to be very similar to what I read/hear about women as rape victims.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 10:01:15 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

consider how/why spock, in the original series of star trek, was such a beloved character...and interestingly enough, how moved men were when he died at the end of wrath of khan.



Fuckin' spoiler alert, dude! You've triggered me!



Michael


laughs...

this email was a micro-aggression! isn't this supposed to be a safe space??

they are not the hell your whales!


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 12/13/2016 10:11:21 AM >

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 10:05:40 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

sure, it can apply to anyone who was raised in such a way, or who has made a choice themselves towards it.

however, on the whole, and I cant imagine liberals who like to minimize differences between genders are going to like this---women are more prone to cry than men. some of that might indeed be nurture (and culture) but at least some of it is also by nature.


Well sure that monthly hormonal thing can really mess you up for a few days... ; )



in the thread about the trump supporter being harassed for wearing a build the wall t-shirt, I quoted from a book im reading from 1749. last night I read a passage that relates to this conversation:

quote:

...for we are not always to conclude that a wise man is not hurt because he doth not cry out and lament himself like those of a childish or effeminate temper.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 10:20:07 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

crimes wherein his masculinity has been harmed,

And exactly how does being raped harm a anyone's masculinity?

quote:

the personal & cultural degradation that typically accompanies such reporting.

And lessening those things is actually the whole point of the thread.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 11:04:02 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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I was thinking about the crying thing.
I hate crying, and I do think crying is a sign of weakness. For my inability to stop the tears. It's easy to make me cry. Someone just gotta raise their voice at me. That's all that is needed. And no matter how hard I try to hold back the tears, it will flow. I think it's childhood trauma, but that's what I gotta deal with. That's why I avoid temperamental people like plague. Even when I choose my bosses, I choose bosses with perfect temperament. And I have to say, I work for bosses who always treat me kindly and never raise their voice at me, even if I make mistake. Even during interview, you can tell already, if it is gonna work out between me and the boss. So literally the most important thing in a job for me is the character of the person I work for, more important than pay or job scope. That's how I always choose my jobs.

But at the same time, when a man cries. Two major men in my life have literally cried manly tears of joy when they were with me. During honeymoon stage anyway. It was very touching. As they never cry even when faced with worst adversity.

When I cry, it really means nothing. Because, it's too easy to make me cry.

And I can never imagine belittling a male ever for crying, because I think everybody knows how difficult it is for them to reach that stage. Usually, when it comes to tears, I think men have greater control.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/13/2016 11:08:50 AM >

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 11:16:25 AM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
the best I could probably say is each individual would have to make his own determination as to reporting crimes wherein his masculinity has been harmed


So you are of the opinion that if a man is sexually violated, then he is less of a man? I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but that is what that sounds like to me, so I am asking for clarification here if I am interpreting this incorrectly.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 11:41:53 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		you will have to ask a man who has been sexually violated if he does indeed feel that way, not me.

quote:

Because our society expects men to be physically strong and capable of defending themselves, many male rape
survivors suffer a severe blow to their manhood, having been taught to believe that men should not be weak enough
to be forced into a sexually submissive situation...

Some men will feel part of their masculinity has been stripped away, that they have been feminized, or are
somehow less manly because they have been sexually violated.


http://www.odh.ohio.gov/~/media/ODH/ASSETS/Files/hprr/sexual%20assult/appendix182011.ashx

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 12/13/2016 12:14:00 PM >

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 12:07:28 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you will have to ask a man who has been sexually violated if he does indeed feel that way, not me.

Problem being that men don't usually speak up about things like that, because they are told to 'act like a man', 'don't cry'. And that if they do these things, then yes, they are seen as women-like. And that culture perpetuates the problem. It (unintentionally) aids those who sexually violate males. And society knows this. But being seen as 'manly' seems to be more important.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 12:38:15 PM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		The same feminists that campaigned to remove the gender distinction from rape laws.

Fucking man haters


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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 3:23:30 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So who or what is to blame then, RM? I think we're all clear now about who and what you think is *not* to blame. We get how you see feminism has ballsed up in its analysis of the root problem. What or who do *you* think is the root problem?

Here is an interesting article reporting on a book written about male on male murder:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2115938-guilty-or-not-guilty-does-inequality-really-lead-to-murder/

While the faults of the book are discussed, it does mention the book is by an author that applies Darwin insights into criminal behavior. I bring it up because not once is the feminist pseudo-science, that purports patriarchy is the root of evil, discussed. It discusses men's evolved predispositions. To me, patriarchal pressure is BS. It's a code word to catch all evil that won't turn all power over to feminists. As long as feminists try to use their "philosophy" in a scientific context nothing will be understood. Trying to solve a problem with feminist philosophy just is quaint at best.

Males have predispositions toward certain things. Observing those predispositions through the lens of feminist magic and mysticism isn't going to even state the problem in realistic terms let alone offer solutions.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/13/2016 3:45:10 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you will have to ask a man who has been sexually violated if he does indeed feel that way, not me.

Problem being that men don't usually speak up about things like that, because they are told to 'act like a man', 'don't cry'. And that if they do these things, then yes, they are seen as women-like. And that culture perpetuates the problem. It (unintentionally) aids those who sexually violate males. And society knows this. But being seen as 'manly' seems to be more important.


I would say there are a variety of crimes that for at least a handful of reasons, the victims do not speak up.

meanwhile, some interesting, but disturbing reading:

http://www.gq.com/long-form/male-military-rape

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