jlf1961
Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Greta75
quote:
ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Complicated red tape....
Another term for that is "go directly to the gallows, no trial, no questions."
You don't trust your government to make fair decisions. That's why US courts have jury to help the judge make his decision. And our courts, UK courts, just have a judge who judges. We need to appoint the right judge to make the right judgement.
Same with ISA. Who-ever decides who is guilty, is almost like a Judge and gets to decide. That person is obviously carefully selected like a Judge is.
I've always been very outspoken and said alot of inflammatory things. I've even gone face to face to our Minister of Labour and argued with him heatedly about things, letting him know how I feel about at one point of time, the stupid foreign labour work permits and how it works.
IF ISA was unfair, I would have been arrested.
Yet ISA has been detaining potential Islamic Terrorists lately and really put to good use to prevent Lone Wolves attacks.
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And any government that cannot tolerate criticism of any sort, constructive or not, is not one I would live under. Kind of reminds me of Stalinist Russia, Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Franco's Spain....Part of the value of free speech is the right to criticize the government WITHOUT fear of reprisal.
I think you aren't listening that constructive criticism is allowed. Disrespectful Criticism is not allowed. Asia as a whole, is all about respect for each other. Try insulting a King in Thailand and see what happens? Every Asian country believes in respectful dialogue. We actually think it's disgraceful like, how people are calling Obama words like "Monkey" and calling Michelle a "transsexual", because that's disrespectful and now, all the things they are calling Trump, "Orange Orang Utan" or something.
If they had express their criticism in a non-personal attack manner and stick to the issues and offer alternative solutions. This person would NEVER get in trouble.
If you notice, even in this political discourse, I refrain from personal attacks as much as possible, because when I am clashing with my government, I have to. It's what we are brought up to believe that political disagreement can be done in a respectful manner. And I am sure people can express their opposing views without making it personal. It IS possible ya know!
Not like the way you guys do it. But that's the West. And this is Asia. We believe in different ways of expressing disagreements with government. Respectful Tone is utmost importance over here.
In a free society (key word FREE) criticism of any kind is tolerated.
If the United States had your system, 90% of comics would be in jail, the rest would be accountants.
I got 'constructive' criticism is allowed, but who determines if it is constructive? Historically, the abolition of slavery was constructive, however, when you look at it from a slave owner's point of view, of which the governors and state legislatures of the slave states were made up of, it was not constructive at all.
Constructive is not just a matter of context, but point of view.
As for just a judge making a decision on guilt or innocence, that is putting too much power in the hands of one man, hence the jury system.
And finally, the ability to hold an individual without trial for any length of time just because they disagreed with the government is not he sign of a free society, it is repressive and totalitarian.
Hence the problem that I have with the detention center at Gitmo. IF they actually had proof these detainees were terrorists that would stand up in a court of law, in ANY country, they would have been had a trial.
Everything you said and used the word respect is insanely naive. It is not respect that keeps people from saying what they truly think, it is fear.
Imprisoned for a political cartoon? Seriously?
Have you ever looked at the editorial cartoons in American Papers? Christ, everyone of those men and women would be in prison under your system.
And, from experience, there is a time when 'respectful criticism' stops working and you have to be an ass to make a point. If a government cant accept that, then it is time to get rid of the government.
I have many friends who are Asian, and yes, they are probably the most respectful people I know. But I have also seen them reach the point where respect be damned, and they speak exactly what they are thinking and feel.
Funny thing, when that point is reached, you cant help but listen.
And, with all that said, you missed my point.
Which was, no country or gender or religion has the right from ANY source to dictate to another country or countries how to run their own society.
If you believe that, then you would have to accept that if some future President of the United States decided that your government was too oppressive, then he would have the right to send troops in to force a cultural change within Singapore.
If that is wrong for some American president to do, then it is just as wrong for people to demand that Saudi Arabia or any country change to suit your idea of what is right or wrong.
It is one thing to voice the fact you think it is wrong, or condemn whatever it is. But when you demand they change to suit your ideas of right and wrong, you have over stepped the line.
Do I agree with how women are treated in some Muslim countries or cultures, no.
Do I think it is wrong, hell yes.
Do I have the right to demand they change, no.
Like every other people, they must decide on their own to make the changes. At that point I have the right to aid them financially or how ever I can.
Until that time, all I have the right to do is voice an opinion.
Of course there is a term for that, it is called respect.
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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?
You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.
Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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