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Entitlement - 8/13/2006 11:54:10 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I had a conversation with Kyra recently, who encouraged me to begin this thread.  So this thread is really from both of us, rather than just me (I’m sharing the blame if it goes badly…heh)

Some months back, I was working through a struggle in my submission, and spoke to a friend about it.  Master knew of this struggle, and was aware that I was discussing it with a trusted friend.  I couldn’t understand why I was having such a hard time accepting something Master was choosing to do.  It is really easy to toss around phrases like, “It is Master’s right to do what he wants,” but to actually walk the talk can be a different story, can’t it? 

As I processed the situation, one word came to mind, which changed things:  Entitlement.  Despite how deeply I submitted, and how genuine my service to him was, one barrier remained, unbeknownst to me.  This barrier prevented me from finally reaching where I needed to be.  Like it or not, whether I wanted to see it and recognize it or not, I still felt entitled.  It was an ugly truth, but still the truth.  I felt I deserved something from him.  That sentiment is what continually tripped me up, and what would cause me to fall off course.

Looking back, as deeply as I was submitting, I always came back to “You should” statements toward him.  “You should look after me better.”  “You should provide this or that.”  “You should share more of your world with me.”  “You should trust me to handle more things.”  “You should, You should, You should…”  I wasn’t actually saying those things, but they were the underlying sentiments behind concerns I brought to him.

But…why should he?   Deciding what he “should” do, was deciding I knew how to better run this relationship than he did.  Such a thought is a lie, actually, as it has been proven time and again that he knows better than I. 

The friend I was talking to made a comment which hit me like a brick.  He said something to the effect of, rather than spending my time lamenting, I should be groveling at his feet, grateful that he even owns me, and that I should be thankful for Master’s benevolence in not punishing me for mouthing off.

Huh.

The truth is, he owes me nothing and I owe him everything, and for the rest of my days, even if he ever chooses to dispose of me, I should and will be grateful for having had the privilege of his ownership in the first place. I realized how ungrateful I had been when expressing such sentiment.  I felt ashamed for not better expressing my gratitude to him, and for instead, crying out “You should” sentiments.

The word entitlement came to mind.  And everything became clear.  I begged him to own me, after all – to collar me.  I begged for his control and authority over me.  And now here I have been, basically telling him how he should own me.  It was as though a fog lifted.  The barrier between me and my complete submission and service to him was removed. 

The entitlement is gone.  He will do what he will do when he will do it and however he feels like doing it.  And all I feel is gratitude for the continued privilege of wearing his collar, and being his slave.  These words are not said lightly.  Whether he overuses me daily and wears me out, or ignores me for a period of time…whether he has me drive to him, just to serve and go home, or uses me vigorously, or simply has me in attendance to watch him with another, or rents me out to others…the overriding factor is that I am grateful to wear his collar and be his slave.  The most important piece is that I serve him as he deserves to be served. 

It is quite liberating, to be so free of burden.  I finally, for once and for all, completely let go.  My submission to him is HIS, not mine.  He owns it, and I let go of the need to speak on its behalf.  I no longer feel the urge to ask annoying questions that are irrelevant to my service to him.  I no longer feel frustrated, or anxious, or put off about that which I do not know.  Such things don’t matter.  What matters is pleasing him, and finding such joy in doing so.

I realize not all relationships are structured like this.  I realize some slaves and submissives are entitled to more (or less) than others.

In talking to Kyra, some questions were posed:

What issues have you had in dealing with the idea of entitlement?

What are you entitled to in your relationships (from both the dominant and submissive perspective)?

How have you learned to let go of the things you are not entitled to?

Have there been patterns established – consistency in actions – which led you to have expectations, which in turn gave you a feeling of entitlement?

Lastly, did losing feelings of entitlement bring forth enlightenment?  And if so, how?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 5:54:00 AM   
pqwinny


Posts: 117
Joined: 6/23/2006
Status: offline 		Couple of things
1.  i'm surprised at the lack of response,  irrespective of the topic, just in general terms and that makes me wonder why.
2. i've never liked the word or idea of entitlement in any sense.  It connotes an air of superiority and is the antithesis of humility, which i believe to be an essential ingredient to submission and a contented life in general -with or without D/s.

As i read your post, i couldn't help but think about expectations and how they can screw things up.  I once read something that said serenity is inversely proportional to one's level of expectations.  Not sure i agree 100% but it certainly gives me something to think about when i feel let down in any given situation, particulary as it relates to my Sir.

Those are my thoughts...

_____________________________

I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 6:01:01 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I was surprised as well.

I personally dislike the word.  That's why it was such an eye opener when I realized that in certain areas of my relationship with my  Master, the word actually applied.  Such a discovery allowed me to free myself of my own barriers and serve far deeper and more freely in my submission than ever before. 

Thank you for responding.  Interesting thought on serenity. 

(in reply to pqwinny)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 6:40:33 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Posting near midnight on Sunday EST isn't the best time to start a topic to get responses :)  Give it time.

I don't think feeling entitled towards anything, even as a consensual slave, is wrong or bad. 

If you were a non consensual slave, or feeling entitled to things that your master had not told you to expect of or from him- then I would say you were being unrealistic in your expectations.  You don't specify whether your feelings of entitlement were of things your master had given you reason to expect or not.

We get into consensual relationships because we expect things from them- we expect to be fulfilled by them.  We agree to be owned by a SPECIFIC person because of what we can create together.   If being entitled didn't matter, then we could just as easily agree to be owned by anyone right out the gate.  We form realistic expectations and we SHOULD be held accoutable to hold them.

Where this gets tricky in Ms situations is that very rarely is the slave ever given reason to expect any specific thing or action.  It's usually far more broad in scope, with a focus towards long term mutual fulfillment and can at times seem to completely ignore any of the traditional daily expectations one has in other relationships.  Instead, the slave simply expects to be owned, expects to be treated as owned property.  There really IS a reason we tell slaves to make sure that this is what will work for them before committing.

Ironically in some ways, being a slave requires a high level of independence and reliance on self awareness.

So I do not believe entitlement is a bad thing- once you agree to the concept of consensual slavery, then you agree that you are entitled to consent to the relationship that will work best for YOU.

Feeling entitled to something specific however or something that has not been given to you to expect however, is different.  And it can be VERY hard to break out of and become at peace with.  I'm glad I finally found that place inside myself with my former owner as it is in fact what finally freed me to be able to form the relationships I have with my partners now.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 7:10:15 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		I'm using fast reply... I don't have much to add to the topic, because at least for me its a fairly personal issue that I'm not sure I'd talk about on a general board.  I can't say that its the same for other people, but that may be why you haven't seen a lot of responses.

Either way, its an interesting thread!

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 7:24:19 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The truth is, he owes me nothing and I owe him everything, and for the rest of my days, even if he ever chooses to dispose of me, I should and will be grateful for having had the privilege of his ownership in the first place. I realized how ungrateful I had been when expressing such sentiment. I felt ashamed for not better expressing my gratitude to him, and for instead, crying out “You should” sentiments.


First off, this sounds EXTREME to me. I certainly hope this is not the truth you aspire to and I certainly hope he, too, feels lucky and blessed to be in a relationship w/ you.

Next, I understand the whole ZEN thing of no expectations, unconditional love, and selfless service ---- but I also think its more of an ideal than a workable proposition. The goal is to free yourself of manipulative behaviors and conditional love:

a. "I do 'Y' for you so I can get can get 'X'." (bad)

b. Only feeling love b/c of your partner's responses. (bad)

So as a baseline, one wants love to start/orginate with the lover, not the beloved. This leaves you in control of the process, empowered to act on your feelings, and makes you generous of spirit, time, resources and energy. (Good Stuff)

But if you are loving to someone else, they can still mistreat you, take advantage of you, take you for granted, or otherwise make you unahappy.

So, in this regard you can expect certain considerations in return ---- and I would not call such expectations "feelings of entitlement." No, I'd call them commons sense needs.

In sum, have a loving generous spirit and be mindful of ideals, but also realize too that your partner has responsibilities to you as well.

Footnote: To me the key to relationships is being constructively unhappy about them (when you are unhappy.)


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 7:39:42 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie


What issues have you had in dealing with the idea of entitlement?



I think that the word I would use instead of entitlement would be expectations. I try not to expect anything from anyone other than what they tell me to expect. That concept is more universal than my submission

quote:


What are you entitled to in your relationships (from both the dominant and submissive perspective)?


My Daddy is leaving for an out of town business thing today, I do not know when he will get the chance to answer this for himself, but my ideas on it are I do not expect anything that someone does not want to give me.. I want it from the heart, and if it isn't the person can keep it with the exception of my son, whom I am guiding to adulthood and must expect things from. Also, when it comes to earning a living, and my career, I expect what I merit, but know that it may not happen either.

As far as my relationship with Daddy, I have the expectation that my limits will be honored and that I will be respected. That is it. I am not collared by him, and even if I were, I would only expect what he told me to.

quote:

How have you learned to let go of the things you are not entitled to?

Not completely, I have am a work in progress. Like I said, I think we as human beings have few entitlements period... look around the world, most people live in grinding poverty, why am I entitled to more?  I think most people have a false sense of entitlement if you ask me.. including dominants.

Now switch it to expectations, I remind myself daily that I have no right to expect what someone else cannot give, regardless of what their relationship is to me.

quote:

Have there been patterns established – consistency in actions – which led you to have expectations, which in turn gave you a feeling of entitlement?

Yes, he calls me daily, sometimes a few times a day, so I expect it and worry if he doesn't call by a certain time. I consider this a respect issue, a respect for my peace of mind. I do not expect a long winded call or explanations per se, but I do expect he call me, especially if he deviates from his schedule. I worry about him because I care about him. If he had a problem with that expectation then I would wonder how much he cared for me.

quote:


Lastly, did losing feelings of entitlement bring forth enlightenment?  And if so, how?
I let go of the concept that I was entitled to things when I was in my late 20s. It is very freeing and it is a spiritual thing. Enlightenment yes, in a Zen Buddhist sorta way with a dash of Taosim. I didn't even know that my ideas had a religion associated with them, I was just learning to let go of things period. My Daddy is a Taoist/Buddhist, and so was my former dominant. They live under these universal rules too, not just me. I respect that.

If I am collared by my Daddy, yes, my expectations will change. I am human after all. I deserve to be treated as a human being. I would be his partner, not only his submissive. Yes, ownedgirlie, your dynamic is very different than mine. I think that he wants me to expect more than I actually do at times, and he hasn't been with anyone who expected so little of him. At the same time, if my needs were not met, I would go, even if it broke my heart. That is where we differ I think. I expect to be loved and respect for my humanity in a collar, if I am not, then I would go. It is really simple.

I have the belief that our possessions own us. If he collars me, then that responsiblity owns him too.


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/14/2006 7:42:32 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 8:57:49 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Posting near midnight on Sunday EST isn't the best time to start a topic to get responses :)  Give it time.

Yeah, I thought about that :)

quote:


We get into consensual relationships because we expect things from them- we expect to be fulfilled by them.  We agree to be owned by a SPECIFIC person because of what we can create together.   If being entitled didn't matter, then we could just as easily agree to be owned by anyone right out the gate.  We form realistic expectations and we SHOULD be held accoutable to hold them.

Where this gets tricky in Ms situations is that very rarely is the slave ever given reason to expect any specific thing or action.  It's usually far more broad in scope, with a focus towards long term mutual fulfillment and can at times seem to completely ignore any of the traditional daily expectations one has in other relationships.  Instead, the slave simply expects to be owned, expects to be treated as owned property.  There really IS a reason we tell slaves to make sure that this is what will work for them before committing.

Ironically in some ways, being a slave requires a high level of independence and reliance on self awareness.

You wrote some interesting things here.  Expecting to be fulfilled.  Yes, I suppose there is truth to that to some degree.  With Master and I, there was a certain chemistry, and as much as people may think it's hogwash, I really had no choice.  You know that song, "You had me from hello"  I don't know that I consciously went into this relationship with him expecting to be fulfilled.  I was drawn so strongly - a magnetic pull if you will - that I just entered it.  No, I would not have entered slavery with just any ol' Master because I did not feel this chemistry with anyone else. 

You nailed it in the next paragraph.  I do not expect any thing or action.  It is our overall relationship which pretty much rocks my world.  It is the way he manages me.  It is the way he cares for me.  It is our connection that brings me joy.  Do I expect those things?  No, I am property.  That he treats me so wonderfully is his gift.  And yes, I completely agree with you about self awareness.  That was something I actually wasn't aware of, until he taught me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

I'm using fast reply... I don't have much to add to the topic, because at least for me its a fairly personal issue that I'm not sure I'd talk about on a general board. 

I actually felt this way about posting the OP, but decided aww, what the heck!  I understand your decision to not post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
First off, this sounds EXTREME to me. I certainly hope this is not the truth you aspire to and I certainly hope he, too, feels lucky and blessed to be in a relationship w/ you.

Why do you hope it is not my truth?  Why is "extreme" viewed as a bad thing?  It seems so often when someone speaks of something other than a romantic and sweet relationship, it is met with a negative response.  But yes, he is very happy to own me.

quote:

Next, I understand the whole ZEN thing of no expectations, unconditional love, and selfless service ---- but I also think its more of an ideal than a workable proposition. The goal is to free yourself of manipulative behaviors and conditional love:

It can be more than simply an ideal, but freeing oneself of manipulative behaviors can provide great benefits.

quote:

So as a baseline, one wants love to start/orginate with the lover, not the beloved. This leaves you in control of the process, empowered to act on your feelings, and makes you generous of spirit, time, resources and energy. (Good Stuff)

Since he allowed me to love him, and encouraged it (even when I was afraid to at first), he guided this process.  If I had truly controlled the process, I would not have let myself love him.  Not as soon as I did, anyway. 

quote:


But if you are loving to someone else, they can still mistreat you, take advantage of you, take you for granted, or otherwise make you unahappy.

Once again, with negative.  "They can still mistreat you."  Yes, that is true.  But it is my Master's right to mistreat me if he wishes.  In my case, he doesn't.  And I can expect him not to harm me, because he has said he wouldn't.  But as in any relationship, expectations can change, and that can also change.  However, that was not the basis of my OP.  My OP was a statement of how things are for me, and to ask how things are for others.  If you feel that letting go of entitlement would render you mistreated, then you would not let go of it.  I feel that it will not do that for me, and so I could let go.

Julia:  Rather than pull quotes from you, I want to simply thank you for your open and honest answers.  I believe entitlement and expectations are two different things, as it seems you do too, and I understand where you are coming from.  Master contacts me daily as well, and I also worry when he does not.  I do expect that contact (in a way) but I do not feel entitled to it, or that there is lack of respect when it doesn't happen.  Sometimes it simply doesn't.  When it doesn't, I miss him, I write to him, and I appreciate even more those times that he does.  I am not comparing us - I know we do have different types of relationships - I just wanted to share how I see it in my own relationship.

As for expecting to be loved and respected for one's humanity while in a collar - in a way I have differed there, also.  I never expected him to love me, nor did I ever ask him to.  The fact that he does, absolutely delights me.  And I see it every day in the way he manages me - when he is tough and when he is dear.  As for being respected for my humanity, knowing Master as I do, and the way he thinks, it goes without saying that will happen.  But I am not in a position to demand that of him.  It just happens to be who he is.

I appreciate all the replies so far.  I know it is a personal subject. 


(in reply to Wildfleurs)
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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 9:11:26 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		If he doesn't call me, I call him...smiles. I have no problem doing that, Im not checking up, he knows that, I am just checking to see if he is ok.

I did not mean to imply that the differences were in any way shape or form bad differences.. I just meant we are different.

But I think that you are right about entitlement, Im not entitled to anything except being born (because I am already here), and taxes followed by my entitled death.. we are all entitled to die eventually (Im such an existentialist). I think the only way we differ is that I do not believe my Daddy is entitled to anything either, I think no one is entitled to more than this ride we call life, no matter where it takes us. We are not entitled to call the shots about any of it, and to think we are is just an illusion. Dominants get cancer, get dumped, have bankruptcy problems, have rebellious children, and many other troubles because they are not entitled to anything either. He is not entitled to my submission, even when I wear his collar. I have given it to him, he can expect it, but he is not entitled to it. I could be killed the day after he puts a collar on my neck, so much for his entitlement of my service, it is all an illusion.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 9:16:17 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

What are you entitled to in your relationships (from both the dominant and submissive perspective)?

this slave is entitled to food, beverages, shelter, meds and the opportunity to speak her mind, whenever Master decides to allow it.  everything else is gravy.
quote:

How have you learned to let go of the things you are not entitled to?

it was a conscious choice to enter into a relationship where there would be no expectation of entitlement to anything other than the basic things described in the answer to the previous question.
quote:

Have there been patterns established – consistency in actions – which led you to have expectations, which in turn gave you a feeling of entitlement?


no,  this slave did not seek to be made happy nor sexually fulfilled nor be trained nor even be owned by another person...all that came as a bonus upon surrendering to fulfill her purpose on this path called physical life.  this slave prayed about it, meditated over it, "consulted the oracle" and soul-searched for many moons about what that purpose was and how her talents, skills and abilities should be put to use.  It was OVERWHELMINGLY obvious to this slave, even if no-one else understood.  sometimes, putting feelings to words, even strong feelings of conviction, is really hard...especially when folks want proof up front.  the most important people in this slave's life (her "owners" in the past) were consulted, permission was granted on the physical level and this slave has proceeded, full steam ahead for 20 years.

this slave's path has been one of service since she can remember. raised in an isolated environment where being of service was the main focus, it goes against this slave's training and internal processes to be all about this slave and getting what she wants when she wants it.  her role in serving the wants and needs of others was intensively groomed since infancy and an inescapable foundation throughout every relationship she has ever had and will have--vanilla, random, circumstantial,personal, professional, etc. the notion that this slave is here to BE SERVED by anyone or is magically ENTITLED to any particular thing, especially things NOT previously agreed upon, has always seemed preposterous and this slave can't imagine it ever being a comfortable idea.  this slave is well aware that expressing that line of thinking is not popular...and couldn't care less.  just because one has not experienced it doesn't mean nobody can.
 
it has been this slave's experience that a slave gives self-less service. to some it is rather sick, unappealing or just plain wrong or unattainable. they insist that it is for self-serving reasons that service exists--the "joy" they get from serving is what must propel one to consensual slavery, or the sensations that are provided to them by the Master. that's not everyone's journey = for some, personal "joy", sensation play, the feeling of security, getting one's needs met, outside of food-water-shelter-meds are considered gravy and therefore non-essential to their slavery, merely a "treat" if Master allows. 

not everyone has the same experience with their servitude.  what some consider unattainable or ridiculous is actually possible and very positive for at least one other.

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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 9:20:43 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I did not mean to imply that the differences were in any way shape or form bad differences.. I just meant we are different.

That is exactly how I received it :)

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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 9:24:14 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
not everyone has the same experience with their servitude.  what some consider unattainable or ridiculous is actually possible and very positive for at least one other.

I so completely agree, beth, and thank you for your post.  You put into words many of my own thoughts.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 9:51:13 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		i am just going to point out something that jumped out to me and then ill shut up.
 
quote:

  The entitlement is gone.  He will do what he will do when he will do it and however he feels like doing it.  And all I feel is gratitude for the continued privilege of wearing his collar, and being his slave.


That is until the next time you hit another bump in the road.
 
For me what i love about slavery is that is is a process, a journey of self, evolving. For me at least there was  never a finish line that was crossed and i could then dust my hands off and say "ok its done, i am a slave now."
 
The process was actually the best part of the whole thing, it organically grew like a vine, wrapping around things, shrinking and growing according to the sun and rain, bearing fruit at times, and being barren as well.
 
I think when you sign up for slavery, you sign up for a personal journey unlike anything you will every experience in any other part of life. You sign up for the experience of bearing fruit, and at times, withering on the vine. And in the darkest bleakest times you rely on yourself and not your owner to find your deepest internal commitment to the process, to the evolution, that is becoming a slave.
 
I think that you are inviting disapointnent if you think that entittlement and expectations are now forever bannished.
 
They are not, know that they will rear their heads over and over through out your life as a slave, but if you choose to embrace this truth, you will reap the  fruits of deepest core strenth, inner guidence, inner commitment, character, and grace at each new harvest, just exactly like you did this time.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 9:52:14 AM   
Inhibitor


Posts: 73
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		I suspect another semantics issue.

.entitlement - a feeling that a personal attribute, or a combination of them, warrants a given event without question.
.expectation - a feeling that a given event should occur, without question in extreme cases.
.want - a feeling of desire for a given event to occur.

I think the culture here would like us to believe that we're entitled to all kinds of things...respect, wealth, education, the super value menu, and all sorts of things within a relationship. Feeling entitled to those things is fine as long as you're okay with making an ass of yourself when the results occasionally don't go the way you thought they should have. And of course, said entitlement is bound to annoy/confuse/anger someone external who has to deal with it (i.e. your partner).

Wanting things is much more benign. If the desired result does not occur, it's simply not what you wanted, rather than being an affront to your person somehow.
That being said, I do feel entitled to love, respect, and honesty in a relationship. But how I transmit and recieve these things is based on how I *want* to transmit and recieve them. Desires are realized or unfulfilled, and if the latter occurs, I can choose to accept it or move on. That way, it's my choice based on what I want, not "master/partner"'s unwitting rejection of some personal quality I expect certain profits from and hold in highest esteem.

Owned, I hope you find the system that works best for you; your partners will naturally benefit.

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RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 10:38:04 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Crouchingtigress, I always love to read you, all I can say is wow, yes it is a process isn't it?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 11:38:34 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		mahalo, julia, i love reading you too.
 
I wish there was a better less clinical word then process it is more like an evolving, a journey.
 
And what surprised me more than anything about it (and this is where i loose a lot of people) is that contrary to outer appearances, it really is a journey, at the deepest level, one travels alone.
 
That is not to say the Owner is not a part of the process, but the highest and lowest notes, of the music of submission, can only ever be heard by the submissive.
 
I dont know if i am making sense to any one but myself here...do you know what i mean?
 
 

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 12:01:39 PM   
pqwinny


Posts: 117
Joined: 6/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

the highest and lowest notes, of the music of submission, can only ever be heard by the submissive.
 

 


Boy oh boy, does that make sense.  It's poetic and so on point.  Sometimes it is such a struggle to find words to fit feelings or convey ideas.  Thanks for those.  i'm gonna keep them!

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I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 12:02:18 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Yes I do understand. I talked to my Daddy about this thread when he called. He had some of the same ideas as I do, and we have talked about these issues using different words in the past.

I look at it this way, parts of this journey we walk side by side along the way because the path is wide and clear, and other places we have to walk single file. It is those single file spots along the trail that he can't go there with me. And that is ok. He is who he is, and I am who I am, and our relationship is a beautiful expression of allowing each other to be who the other is.. I do not ever want to "arrive" at a destination with him, because that means our journey together is over.. no way! I said this on another thread, and I will say it again here, I submit because I desire to and want to.. it is consensual completely and totally, and he wants it this way. 

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 12:21:59 PM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		I believe every person has sexual, emotional, and intellectual needs. 
I think every person is entitled to have a partner that helps them meet
those needs.   I think there is something wrong when a relationship
becomes too one-sided.  Subs are at great risk for being attracted to 
abusive, selfish, self-centered lifetime partners who just think about
their own selfish needs.  When you are a sub or a slave, that is what
your archipallium craves.  It is easy to fall in love with the wrong
person or commit yourself to the wrong person, because at some
primal sexual level you are attracted to this aspect of their
personality.  Some people may succeed in totally repressing
their own identity and all their own needs.  I am not sure this is
healthy.  In a mature relationship there needs to be some
compromise, some quid pro quo., some reciprocity, some love.
 A relatoinship where the Dom or Domme too often neglects
too many needs of their sub will not last long.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Entitlement - 8/14/2006 12:22:39 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		<fast reply>

Damn.... there goes my thoughts owned... because I totaly disagree with the whole post. But then again... I disagree with most peoples thoughts on slavery and submission... because I've always felt one could submit without giving up who and what they are... but the more I read these boards lately.. mot sub/slaves on here.. have chosen to give up who they are to be what someone else wants them to be. And the more they boast about not doing so... the more you see it in their post. If that is their choice.. good for them.. I just personal refuse to give up ME.. for anyone. And that's what makes me who I am. And my doms are happy with me..



_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 20
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