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RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 9:12:22 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		Most of my thoughts were already expressed by others here.  i also agree with much of what Bita and CD had to share.
 
i am still a curious and inquisitive child! *grin  That part of me never grew up i guess. lol

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 9:13:41 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

...If you are a submissive/slave do you feel comfortable to ask your dominant person why they are having you do something?...



this slave was trained early in life NOT to question someone in authority's directions with "why", but with "how".  It is second nature for this slave NOT to ask why He wants something done, however, Master insists and this slave has obligated herself to ask for clarification of any order she doesn't understand.  Questions like "Why do I have to do this" aren't asked because to this slave, that's a no-brainer---it's because it is what He wants His slave to do, it is what is going to make him happy, and this slave has pledged her obedience to Him and His happiness.  This slave is very comfortable asking "how", if there are specifics about the order that she needs clarification on.
For example:
If Master asked for ice, this slave wouldn't ask "why do You want ice, Master?", but "how would you like it brought to You?"...in a glass, in a ziploc for an ice pack, cubed, crushed, shaved and flavored as a snowcone, etc. would be this slave's focus, not why he wants it.
 
quote:

I remember in high school I would always ask “why” I had to do algebra, and no one ever gave me a cogent answer as to “why”


this slave worked briefly as an assistant to a Math Professor in college.  He taught several remedial, Algebra selfpaced courses designed to bring college students up to the college math level, and still heard that question often, especially when he assigned "word problems" as opposed to just raw number equations.  His answer was always two-fold.
 
"First, it is a stepping stone to a more advanced level math class that will satisfy the requirements you need to fulfill if you want a particular degree, diploma or job.  Secondly, and more importantly, it is an exercise to train your brain to figure out problems...after you leave class and outside the realm of the algebra book."

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 9:29:52 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

If you are a submissive/slave do you feel comfortable to ask your dominant person why they are having you do something?




I can ask the Dom/mes anything I want but I don't always get an answer. I don't always need to know why. Sometimes I just need to do because they want it done. Sometimes they have a reason that I would consider a good one. Sometimes it's just cuz they like to mess with my mind. (I may not see the messing with my mind as a *good* reason, but if they do, then that's fine.)

I guess what's important to me is that I trust them to have a reason they see as being worthwhile for asking me to do something. Do I really have to know why? If it's important that I know, they'll tell me. If it's not important for me to know, do I really need to know anyway just to satisfy my curiosity?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 9:38:33 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, yeah, but then some kid asks a question that's so fucking stupid you're like..."All right, I stand corrected."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I used to tell the kids I was coaching, counseling at summer camps, teaching in class, etc., that the only stupid question is the one they dont ask.



I worked in user support for a long time, and my favorite story from our field service guy was from phone support.

Phone support guy "Hello, tech support."
User "I cannot get any response from my computer console"
PSG "What does it say on the computer console?"
User "Just a sec, let me get a flashlight."

*time passes*

User "Back"
PSG "Why do you need a flashlight?"
User "Power is out in the building."

The interesting part of this story to me is that the User is a paying customer.  The trick the PS guy has facing him is how to explain the connection between a computer not running, and power being off in the building, without upsetting his customer or making the customer feel like a complete tool.

Some learn how to do this, some dont.

Those who dont, I suggest a career change.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 9:41:43 AM   
ToGiveDivine


Posts: 650
Status: offline 		We call that an     ID-10-T     error

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 10:10:37 AM   
gandalf0297


Posts: 148
Joined: 8/6/2006
Status: offline 		I consider the asking of questions one of the most importnat parts of a relationship. Wether it be D/s or nilla. It shows curiosity and a willingness to learn.You may not like the answer, but ask away.
When I STOP hearing"why." that's when I get conserned.
Gandalf

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 10:39:15 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gandalf0297

I consider the asking of questions one of the most importnat parts of a relationship. Wether it be D/s or nilla. It shows curiosity and a willingness to learn.You may not like the answer, but ask away.
When I STOP hearing"why." that's when I get conserned.
Gandalf


That struck a chord with me. I doubt I'll ever stop asking *why*
in one way or another. It doesn't always come out as a *why* though......but maybe enquiring questions that are to the same end.

All the time that I am switched on to my relationship I will have lots of questions and that's one of the most exciting parts. I'm fascinated by my relationship, fascinated by my Master...why wouldn't I want to know more?

There are other times when I won't ask why because I REALLY don't want to know the answer.

Ok, if he asks me for a coffee, it would be rather silly to ask why.

I've rarely ever caused annoyance by asking questions. Some of those times I've been understandably annoying, because I'm asking something that I know the answer to....but I'm hoping for a different answer. Other times I might get a cuff round the head, that usually sorts out whether it was the *right time* or not.

agirl





(in reply to gandalf0297)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 10:52:16 AM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

We call that an     ID-10-T     error


We call them Louie's... (LOgical User Interface Error)

Iskander...


(in reply to ToGiveDivine)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 10:59:40 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

 that usually sorts out whether it was the *right time* or not.


lol.   :: files that under "ooops up side the head" :::

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:08:55 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		LOL.....Now THAT thought is not going to help the next time he clouts me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

 that usually sorts out whether it was the *right time* or not.


agirl

lol.   :: files that under "ooops up side the head" :::


< Message edited by agirl -- 10/20/2006 11:09:18 AM >

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:09:00 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania



There is another type of context I am trying to get at for the "why" questions...

Why do we do things a certain way?
Why do you use this to discipline me?
Why would you rather I not talk to this person?
Why do you want me to not take a promotion?


These why questions would not be to challenge him, they would be to illuminate the reasons he does things the way he does, perhaps so that in the future I can know them without asking, perhaps it can help me process a decision, learn better how to serve, keep myself out of trouble. It can also be a catalyst to dig within myself to better "grok" his answer.

I like what LA says, my submission is not about martyrdom, it is about my growth, his growth, and our growth as an "us" and a "we". I can conceive of a time that why questions may never be asked, but it takes growth, time, and communication to get there.


Just some thoughts....



"Why" is a challenge question. I firmly believe that it is a demand for an answer that one can find acceptable to them and if that answer is not acceptable, they can and often do dismiss it.. or, if they accept something as unreasonable in response to 'why' it can pollute the dynamic and stir resentment.

Let me give you a scenario and I'll use one of your questions so it's in context.

You are offered a promotion at work and you go to your Daddy and inform him of the opportunity. He says he doesn't want you to take the promotion, so, quite naturally, you ask him why. His explanation is reasonable and sound and you see that, indeed, to take the promotion is not the best path for you.

OK, same scenario, but you don't believe he's being reasonable. Now, do you make the decision to turn it down or do you make the decision to accept it since the explanation is not, in your view, reasonable?

In either case, the decision to accept or turn down the promotion is resting with you based on how valid you believe his reasoning is for 'his' decision.

So, where's the power, who holds it and if you are making the decision regardless of the answer anyway... why ask why?



Just something else to ponder. ::chuckles::

::regarding what I emphasized in your response::

Just wanted to point out that you can see a future where 'why' is unnecessary to your dynamic and that's exactly where my head space is now. I'm pretty much done with the 'why' and 'how' questions.. and most are matters of 'what, where and when' for clarification purposes.


What do you think this or that?
When would you like so and so?
Where do you want me?

Speaking of what.. if, instead of asking 'why'.. can you ask what instead? I believe that asking 'what' is almost always better than asking 'why'.

I don't want you to take the promotion.
Why?

That's a challenge which says to me, "Come up with a damn good reason!"

I don't want you to take the promotion.
What are the consequences to our finanaces/my future employment opportunities/the time we currently have together? What will happen if I turn it down? What will happen if I take it?

No challenge at all. No power struggle, it opens a clear dialogue of your true concerns and is much more important to know than .. why.

::yet more stuff to ponder::

Celeste






_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:15:09 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I just keep hearing the echo of last weekend in my head

"Gaammaa why you gotta take Sandy (dog) out on leash?"
"Gaammaa, why Lauren (other dog) not on leash?"
"Gaammaa, why you gotta clean fish tank?"
"Gaammaa, why fish hide?"
"Gaammaa, why fish eat that?"
and on and on and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

I keep telling myself, patience, they just want to know the answers. Granted they are 2 & 3, not 23 or 33 or 43.......but I think for some it is natural to be inquisitive and want to know all the hows and whys.

I must say however, the most angry I have EVER made my boss was when I asked him a "why" question. He didn't have the answer, kept saying it was "just because". Well, me being me, and very involved in the running of the business did not see any postive reason for making the change. In fact, I saw it as taking something away from the guys that work for me and giving it to another company he owns, undeserving on both sides. I just wanted to know what the reasoning behind the decision was. He didn't have any so he got veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy angry. The ensuing battle of words and wits was at least entertaining for a few onlookers. The grand finale' of his flinging his chair back and stomping up the stairs to his office was the best.




_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:29:46 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I must say however, the most angry I have EVER made my boss was when I asked him a "why" question. He didn't have the answer, kept saying it was "just because". Well, me being me, and very involved in the running of the business did not see any postive reason for making the change. In fact, I saw it as taking something away from the guys that work for me and giving it to another company he owns, undeserving on both sides. I just wanted to know what the reasoning behind the decision was. He didn't have any so he got veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy angry. The ensuing battle of words and wits was at least entertaining for a few onlookers. The grand finale' of his flinging his chair back and stomping up the stairs to his office was the best.



When I was a kid my parents used to use the "Get Angry At Their Kids" approach when they did not know the answer.  This was used equally with the "It May Not Be The Right Answer But This Answer Will Shut Them Up" approach.

What I determined when I had kids, and worked in user support, is that both of these approaches simply add time dealing with the wrong answer / emotional meltdown to the amount of time it took to simply answer the question.

I guess I just never saw the logic best expressed in the following:

"When in panic or in doubt
Run in circles, scream, and shout."

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:34:29 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Sinergy, I must say that I sometimes did that when my kids were small. I know I, all to frequently, used the line "because I am the mom and I said so!!".  I sometimes wish I knew then what I know now. 

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:36:20 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		When given an instruction, I am required to know the answers to 4 questions, what, where, when and how.  If I don't know the answers to all of those, then I am required to ask for clarification.  I do not need to know why he wants something done in order to fulfill the task.

He and I are a relatively new relationship, so there are some things that he will say or do that I am not able to understand or appreciate his reasonings or the overall goal.  When I want to ask a "why" question, I am required to ask permission first.  If he thinks "why" is something that I need to know then I will be given permission.  If it is not, then I will be told no. 

It has been some time since I have requested to know why.  It is partly because I know there is a good reason for it even if I don't know what that is and I have learned to let go of wanting that control and also because the more he and I get to know each other the more often I already appreciate the reasons why without having to ask.

These rules apply to instructions and in general conversation as long as I have permission to ask a question, I can ask just about anything I want as long as it is done in the appropriate manner. 

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:39:41 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Yanno, I see a certain freedom in being able to do that. 

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:40:22 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Sinergy, I must say that I sometimes did that when my kids were small. I know I, all to frequently, used the line "because I am the mom and I said so!!".  I sometimes wish I knew then what I know now. 


I would generally say "I dont know, but I will find out for you" in both parenting and user support situations.  Then I would find out and explain it to them.

If I dont know something, I want to find out what it is.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:44:53 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think it has to be a challenge. It can be information gathering. Though thinking about it, I probably don't use the actual word *why* that often any more,  but I AM looking for information.

In the example you used, of Julia's, I don't really see why asking is a challenge.

I have asked those type of questions, knowing that I already accept  the decision, out of pure interest.

agirl 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 11:57:22 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Why can't you..

Why don't you..

Why did you..

Why should I..


Some of these why questions are very obviously challenging

There is another type of context I am trying to get at for the "why" questions...

Why do we do things a certain way?
Why do you use this to discipline me?
Why would you rather I not talk to this person?
Why do you want me to not take a promotion?


These why questions would not be to challenge him, they would be to illuminate the reasons he does things the way he does, perhaps so that in the future I can know them without asking, perhaps it can help me process a decision, learn better how to serve, keep myself out of trouble. It can also be a catalyst to dig within myself to better "grok" his answer.

I like what LA says, my submission is not about martyrdom, it is about my growth, his growth, and our growth as an "us" and a "we". I can conceive of a time that why questions may never be asked, but it takes growth, time, and communication to get there.


Just some thoughts....


I've already noted my agreement with bita's Him on the "Why?" question. I think Mavis made a good point, as does bita does here, of the importance of intent...the asking yourself of the "why ask why?" question.

If my submissive has broken a rule that she has agree to obey and I tell her that I am going to discipline her and how I intend to discipline her and she asks me "why do you use this to discipline me?", then it comes across as a challenge of my thoughts as to how to best discipline her and an expectation of an answer that, in her opinion, will be a reasonable explanation.
However...if her intent is to better understand the discipline and the reasoning behind it, then asking "What did I do to receive this discipline and what are your expectations of me from this discipline?" do not come across as a challenge but rather as reasonable questions for if I have NO answer as to why she is being disciplined other than "because I can" and/or no expectations of a result from a discipline, then I have to ask myself "why AM I using it?". The challenge to myself comes FROM me in response to a well-phrased question with honest intent of purpose.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 12:05:17 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Yes Sinergy, I recognise that approach. There were a few worse ones, like *not telling at all*....... when a grandparent had popped their clogs or something, while everyone's going around sniffing and hushed, in whispers for days and you have NO idea why ........or some family scandal that had surfaced....Good heavens, I left home thinking people simply melted away somehow....lol

agirl

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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