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RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 12:08:22 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Asking *why* isn't a problem, but why you're asking *why* might be ......ok, that was lighthearted.

agirl

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 12:14:37 PM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

However...if her intent is to better understand the discipline and the reasoning behind it, then asking "What did I do to receive this discipline and what are your expectations of me from this discipline?" do not come across as a challenge but rather as reasonable questions for if I have NO answer as to why she is being disciplined other than "because I can" and/or no expectations of a result from a discipline, then I have to ask myself "why AM I using it?". The challenge to myself comes FROM me in response to a well-phrased question with honest intent of purpose.



Learning the intention of another person helps to understand their actions and questions, even if they do not always correctly know how to phrase their questions.  It gives the dominant and the submissive an opportunity to both teach and learn how to be more clear and articulate in expression.   As english is my second language, i recognized that when i changed my wording, even though i felt the same about what i was saying or thinking, it also flipped a switch in my head as to my automatic response, reaction, and understanding.  Correct word usage has a subconscious impact on the mind.  If say, i will always have to work hard at obedience, then i may be sealing that fate.  On the other hand if i rephrase it to say,  While i know i have difficulties, i am getting better with my obedience, then more than likely i will get better at it, because that is what i am now programming into my brain.  Just a thought. 

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 2:16:53 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

You are offered a promotion at work and you go to your Daddy and inform him of the opportunity. He says he doesn't want you to take the promotion, so, quite naturally, you ask him why. His explanation is reasonable and sound and you see that, indeed, to take the promotion is not the best path for you.

OK, same scenario, but you don't believe he's being reasonable. Now, do you make the decision to turn it down or do you make the decision to accept it since the explanation is not, in your view, reasonable?


What if I am asking why as a way to ascertain under what conditions a promotion would be ok for me to take?

IE, "Why do you not want me to accept this promotion, is it because of time away from you, because you feel I would not function well with this much stress, is it because it will require travel?"..etc etc etc. He answers the why question, and after I know what he thinks then I can perhaps search for a job within the parameters of what he thinks is fitting.... In this case the why question helped us negotiate within the power dynamic of that which he finds acceptable and that which he does not, which is why I consider myself a submissive and not a slave (personal definition). It helps me better learn what is required of me. It is not challenging in my opinion unless my submission was contingent on his answer. If I know that I plan to submit no matter the answer, it has no challenge in it even implicated...

Granted, we have a new dynamic, many of these things (including how to handle the acceptance of promotions and job offers) are new to us, so "why" has way less redundancy to me than someone who has been partnered up in a power dynamic for 10 years or even 5 years. We are still finding our boundaries within the dynamic, and I am not collared.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 2:44:45 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I don't think that any questioning is unfair or out of bounds when it pertains to your employment, promotion, income, etc.  Especially when both of you are considering how this will work within the parameters of your relationship, spending time together, future planning, etc.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 2:59:01 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline 		"Mistress, why do I have to wear a gag?" 

Perhaps this is a domination style issue, or perhaps I am simply not creative/weird enough...but I cannot ever recall having given an order or made a request which was so mysterious or incomprehensible that the sub so ordered had to ask why.

Of course, in some scenes, I've had my defiant prisoner ask me "Why should I do what you say?", and put on my best theatrical sneer as I made my best theatrical threat....but, that's not a real question, that's just part of a game.

On the other hand, when I was watching DVD's with my beloved girlsub, years ago, I did teach her to ask me to pause the movie and ask questions if there was anything she did not understand.  She was not a stupid girl by any means, but she had been raised in a very sheltered home and knew very little about some things.  She seemed to enjoy the power to make the movie stop and have things explained at any time.  And although she never stopped during play or service to do the same, in our normal day-to-day relationship we had many long coversations.  Sitting down to have a talk was one of the things I could always do to make her happy, which was good. 

[insecurity whisper]Wait--are dominants supposed to have a lot of obscure and incomprehensible demands?[/insecurity whisper]  "Hey!  Boytoy!  Go take that bunch of bananas and put them in my shoe closet!"

--M

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 3:03:50 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I honestly find that a little hard to imagine--or perhaps all your commands have been limited to carefully circumscribed play.  I think it stands to reason that when you own another human being and order him or her to do something, a "why" question will pop up here and there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

Perhaps this is a domination style issue, or perhaps I am simply not creative/weird enough...but I cannot ever recall having given an order or made a request which was so mysterious or incomprehensible that the sub so ordered had to ask why.

(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 3:33:13 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

What if I am asking why as a way to ascertain under what conditions a promotion would be ok for me to take?


Maybe I am missing something, but if what you really want to know is "what type of conditions need to be met to make a promotion acceptable?", then just ask that directly instead of indirectly getting to it with a "why" question. 

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 3:44:48 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I honestly find that a little hard to imagine--or perhaps all your commands have been limited to carefully circumscribed play.  I think it stands to reason that when you own another human being and order him or her to do something, a "why" question will pop up here and there.


Perhaps it's just slipping my mind, but I truly cannot remember an occasion.  But again, perhaps I am just unimaginative in some way?  It seems I just never asked for something to be done unless the reason was so obvious that no question needed to be asked.  I'm really not a "stick a cucumber in your ass while you scrub the floor" kinda domme...my life as a parent and a professional had to be integrated with my life as an owner in the past, so thinking up ridiculous or arbitrary things for my girl to do was never high on my list of priorities.  Even if the she wouldn't have had a question about those things--the neighbors and the family sure as hell would have! 

--M

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 3:59:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Why not ask why if he doesn't mind answering?

That question works both ways doesn't it?

He determines what is appropriate and what he finds a challenge to him. There have been times when I needed to change my approach because he did not like it... part of learning how he wants me to behave within the dynamic, I am not tremendously experienced in the first place, and he needs me to conform to him alone even if I was. So I just fail to understand how it is challenging him unless he says it is so. He knows me pretty well and he would sense it if I were challenging him.

Today he talked about working nights, and I asked him "why would you want to do that?" It was not a challenge, it was a sincere question....

"Why do you want to go to the beach?" Translation... I want to know why you feel like going to the beach because I want to understand you, because I want to know you and your moods.

"Why would you rather have steak instead of fish tonight?" Translated to say I want to know if there are ways I can anticipate your wants and desires

"Why do you not want to socialize with XY or Z people" Translation, I want to know the kind of people you would like me to avoid in the future

"Why do you not think that promotion is a good idea?" translation, I want to know what about this particular situation you see that could be harmful to me...

"Why do you think I need to think about what I said?" Translation, I want to know how I am talking that is not pleasing to you...

Why not why? It is a word, it has no value other than what the people using it attach to it.

My unmentionable asks why all the time, and while sometimes I have said "because I said so" most of the time I answer the "Why" question, because it helps him process what is expected of him, and he is a logical thinking person, like me.... nothing wrong with that....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 4:02:03 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

What if I am asking why as a way to ascertain under what conditions a promotion would be ok for me to take?


Maybe I am missing something, but if what you really want to know is "what type of conditions need to be met to make a promotion acceptable?", then just ask that directly instead of indirectly getting to it with a "why" question. 

Knight's kyra


I'm missing something too, Kyra because I also view those as 'what' sorts of questions.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 4:08:38 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		No, I just think we use the word "why"  differently is all...


It is the first question I think of when trying to understand something unknown to me, why does the Earth go around the sun, why do bad things happen to good people, why are there 50 stars on the flag...etc etc etc

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/20/2006 4:10:19 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 4:23:26 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
"Why do you want to go to the beach?" Translation... I want to know why you feel like going to the beach because I want to understand you, because I want to know you and your moods.

"Why would you rather have steak instead of fish tonight?" Translated to say I want to know if there are ways I can anticipate your wants and desires

"Why do you not want to socialize with XY or Z people" Translation, I want to know the kind of people you would like me to avoid in the future

"Why do you not think that promotion is a good idea?" translation, I want to know what about this particular situation you see that could be harmful to me...

"Why do you think I need to think about what I said?" Translation, I want to know how I am talking that is not pleasing to you...

Why not why? It is a word, it has no value other than what the people using it attach to it.



"Why not why?" to that particular situation, because in my opinion if a person asked what they really wanted to know in a direct and precise manner, then there wouldn't be any need to give a translation of the question.

But that is just my opinion; I no longer need to ask "why" to a direct instruction.  Now in general conversation, I will ask why if that is precisely what I want to know.  If I want to know something else, then I try to ask it directly instead of beating around the bush.

Knight's kyra

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 10/20/2006 4:24:14 PM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 4:28:01 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		To me it is direct, and the purpose of words is to faciliate communication between two individuals... so the person who has to find it direct has to be the one I would be communicating to.. why works ok with us, so it must serve its purpose to facilitate communication in our dynamic.. but thanks for your perspective and what it means to you.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 4:32:43 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I don't think that any questioning is unfair or out of bounds when it pertains to your employment, promotion, income, etc.  Especially when both of you are considering how this will work within the parameters of your relationship, spending time together, future planning, etc.


I think this is why we see ourselves as submissives perhaps? I agree with you. I am preparing to give him veto power in my life, but that does not mean I am a completely silent partner, and I do not think he would want that... but that is just what we have, and it is different from what others have.. beauty of power exchange is it is built to suit both and their needs.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 4:35:23 PM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


Why can't you..Why don't you..Why did you..Why should I..

... and so on and so forth.  That said, I pretty much already know 'why' he tells me, commands me, compels me. It's because he can, he wishes it, he wants it, he needs it .. and 'just because he said so' is a mighty fine reason in any event.

Rather than ask Himself 'why', I'm much more likely to ask myself.. 'why not?'

I truly look upon 'why' as being equivalant to 'no, not until I determine that your reasons are valid and sound and that I fully understand them' .. and if I had to do a whole lot of that, I'd say I was with the wrong Master.


Perfectly put as usual. I no longer ask these questions myself, they say do, i go do, period. 


These are both sound explanations..And while I do encourage questions, if I had to incessantly explain My requests as to ''why'',  I would be wondering why the hell is she here. 

_____________________________

Accepting one's own imperfections eliminates a roadblock to progress.

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 5:25:14 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I don't think I've ever been given an order and questioned why in the middle of a scene or even in the course of a regular activity.  Because he said so has always been good enough for me, and I'm so happy to receive an order, I just bounce off and do what I've been told.

On occasion, I've refused to do something because it squicked me too much, but that's different.

I do ask a lot of questions, though, to feed my curiosity and enrich my understanding.  When I'm attracted to a Dominant I get a little obsessive and I really want to know what makes him tic.  And the only way that I know to find out is by asking him and voicing my reservations if I have any.  I don't do this in the course of actual play.  Its unusual for me to talk at all if I'm playing, but afterwards I may. If someone I'm interacting with doesn't seem to like this kind of conversation, it probably means we're not compatible.

Some Dominants do take my questions as challenges and turn everything into an argument even though I hate arguing and verbal combat.  If that keeps happening, I know its time to take my leave. (Its taken me a long time to learn this.) 



(in reply to SirLordTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 5:38:37 PM   
PiercedDaz


Posts: 121
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		I think that the trick here is for the Dom to ensure that the 'why?' needs not be asked in the first place. The human animal needs a purpose to motivate tasks...When we are hungry, we don't ask why we are eating whilst we are eating. We know why before we put the food in our mouths. Consciously or unconsciously, we understood the motivation for us to do it.

It is the same here. Words are such an intrinsic tool in order to access the pysche. Don't leave anything to out that may undermine your intended outcome. Ok, admittedly ommissions can be made to heighten anticipation but the sub should deep down understand why they are being led a cetain way. After all, it is their gift that they entrust. It is for the Dom to periodically show that it was a wise choice to entrust it with them.

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 5:38:43 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


"Why do you want to go to the beach?" Translation... I want to know why you feel like going to the beach because I want to understand you, because I want to know you and your moods.

"Why would you rather have steak instead of fish tonight?" Translated to say I want to know if there are ways I can anticipate your wants and desires

"Why do you not want to socialize with XY or Z people" Translation, I want to know the kind of people you would like me to avoid in the future

"Why do you not think that promotion is a good idea?" translation, I want to know what about this particular situation you see that could be harmful to me...

"Why do you think I need to think about what I said?" Translation, I want to know how I am talking that is not pleasing to you...

Why not why? It is a word, it has no value other than what the people using it attach to it.




Julia, let me ask you this:

Imagine that some submissive you don't know posts in this forum to say that her dominant incessantly asks her questions. Furthermore, she says, recently she has learned--by reading a post of his, say, or by talking to an old partner of his--that more often than not the question he is asking out loud is not the one he wants an answer to. Instead he asks questions of type A but his submissive is expected to translate each into secret, unasked questions of type B, C, D, E, and F--and answer accordlingly.

If you paused at this point before reading on to see exactly why it was that this submissive was posting, what would be your first impression of a partner like the one she describes?




(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 5:47:23 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Hmmm... I do not know that I would have any opinion at all Noah

But to me why is pretty self explanatory

so I should not have been trying to communicate its meaning


Edited to say those were EXAMPLES.. only one drawn from my own life, which is asking him why he wants to work nights

That is still  a why question

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/20/2006 5:51:58 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 6:13:45 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Do masters really worry so much about this?  I mean frankly I've taken training of my partners quite seriously and yet modifying what/how they ask questions has never been an issue.  I find getting them to not lose their cellphone a million times harder.  IMO it's really easy to tell when someone is asking a question due to sincere and relevant interest and when it's due to some insecurity or power struggle.  It's also really easy to say "Not now" or "Next time, think about this before you ask."

But really- what's the problem with questions?  Do masters really have such a difficult time with it?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 80
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