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RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 6:26:28 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

I think this is why we see ourselves as submissives perhaps?


Yes.  There are some things in my life that are beyond the lifestyle.  And total control over these things would never happen.  These are things that would also have to be negotiated in a vanilla relationship (such as finances, jobs).


_____________________________

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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 6:31:38 PM   
Fawne


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It appears the more experienced slaves, generally  one's who are also in a secure LTR relationship, such as marriage paired with M/s are the one's who do not say "why".
The foundation is there, mortar set.  Work is done- as if! Let's say they have succeded and likely came a long way. Something to aspire to. Examples of likely fine slaves to look up to.

Look up to, aspire to. 

In a new relationship a gracious, considerate "why" really does need to be asked at times to learn how to best suit your partner's desires. My opinion.

Respectfully, fawne  

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 7:47:24 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave worked briefly as an assistant to a Math Professor in college.  He taught several remedial, Algebra selfpaced courses designed to bring college students up to the college math level, and still heard that question often, especially when he assigned "word problems" as opposed to just raw number equations.  His answer was always two-fold.
 
"First, it is a stepping stone to a more advanced level math class that will satisfy the requirements you need to fulfill if you want a particular degree, diploma or job.  Secondly, and more importantly, it is an exercise to train your brain to figure out problems...after you leave class and outside the realm of the algebra book."


I would have added a third reason.  Mathematics is the language of science.  It is what is used to describe the world around oneself and the way things interact with other things.

As a descriptive language, it is used to make sure buildings are not lopsided, spacecraft dont fly for years to Mars and crater when they get there, to make sure that when you are talking to your friend on the internet that the packets intended for you get to you, so you can find out where you are, and much, much more.

Well, maybe the Mars thing was a poor example, but...

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 7:47:24 PM   
Kalira


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quote:

It appears the more experienced slaves, generally  one's who are also in a secure LTR relationship, such as marriage paired with M/s are the one's who do not say "why".

Not necessarily. I was with my later Master/husband for over 10 years, and in those 10 years I never stopped asking why  

Of course, as mentioned, that did not mean that I always got an answer, but I was encouraged to ask questions.

In the relationship that I am in now, it is the same. He encourages my questions. As before, he does not always give me an answer to them other than 'just do it', but it is not, and has never been taken as a sign of disrespect or non-trust.



_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to Fawne)
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RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 7:58:50 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

"Why" is a challenge question.



I read most of the other things you posted, celeste, and they make a lot of sense.

I do, however, have issues with this sentence.

To me, why is just a word.  It is an interrogatory requesting more information.

Whether it is perceived as or actually a challenge exists solely within the mind of one or both of the one saying it, and the one hearing it.

A Dominant who told their submissive to not do something (like take a promotion at work) in everybodies best interest would seem to me to be not acting in his/her submissive's best interest.  It would seem to me to be an abdication of her responsibilities to our dynamic for her to simply blindly accept my telling her to not take the promotion.

This is just me, and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:19:02 PM   
Fawne


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 Oh wait! I get it!

"Why" is the curse word of today.

Hey?  - Must we all learn to ask "what".
Most whys could be replaced with whats.
We'll switch 'em up! That'll fool 'em!

Is "what" intrinsically more respectful? WHY?

If we all say "what" it will soon inplode. Go out of vogue. so yesterday... yawn.
 
And all those who happen to utter "what" will be deemed - incorrigible,  bitches and a peasant class of vapid "wannabes".
 
I am glad i am kidding  

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:26:14 PM   
juliaoceania


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Your post reminded me of some perverted sesame street, I am waiting for the number of the day and the letter of the day too...smiles

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Fawne)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:43:29 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:


I read most of the other things you posted, celeste, and they make a lot of sense.

I do, however, have issues with this sentence.


Why? ::ok, ok.. I mean, you throw me a line like that.. I couldn't resist!::

quote:

To me, why is just a word.  It is an interrogatory requesting more information.


I agree it's just a word but it seeks specific information, to whit: it seeks a reason or purpose. "How" seeks instruction. "What" seeks clarification, both questions I ask when needed. "Why" though, there is only one reason to ask 'why' and that's because one wants to know the purpose or motive of the Master making the command, request etc. Why is just a word, but it's a word with a specific meaning.. and it doesn't mean 'what' or 'how' or 'who'.

I'm a slave .. it's not my business to know such things. Julia is not a slave.. (Egads.. have we stumbled upon the difference between a submissive and a slave?? A submissive can/will ask 'why' and a slave cannot/will not ask why? ::laughs:: sorry.. different thread!) the relationship with you is in it's beginning stages so her asking why, I believe, is a healthy thing for her because she is still in the process of making decisions regarding where the two of you are, where you are going, what you're both about etc. She has every right to know your motives and reasons for the things you say. Maybe she will always want to know or maybe she won't. It's not a right or wrong sort of thing .. that's up to individual parties to determine.

I'm an old, married slave.  I don't question purpose, reason or motive .. I have almost 11 years of experience being slave to Himself, so I already know those things. As I told Julia, in the beginning, I asked 'why' a lot.

Asking 'why' of Master tells him that I require to know his motivation for any command he may make of me. To require such answers, to me, is a challenge to his decision making or, his authority, if you will. It is something I "want" for no reason other than to satisfy a curiosity.. especially if we both know I'm going to do exactly has he has told me to do.

Take a look at all of Julia's "why" questions.. and their translations.. If I recall correctly, every one of those translations started with "I want".  I pretty much gave up "I want" as well.

quote:

Whether it is perceived as or actually a challenge exists solely within the mind of one or both of the one saying it, and the one hearing it.


I think it could be viewed either way depending on the motive of the person asking the 'why' questions, so I agree with this statement.

quote:

A Dominant who told their submissive to not do something (like take a promotion at work) in everybodies best interest would seem to me to be not acting in his/her submissive's best interest. 


I can't see Julia being with a dominant who would act in such a manner. I know that such a man would never have been able to take my power from me and hold it and keep it for all these years. Perhaps we have differing perceptions of dominant behavior and what sort of behavior would win over a submissive of Julia's caliber. I just can't see 'you' acting in such a manner, so if we are speaking of some hypothetical dominant, I guess my brains can't wrap around the idea that Julia would be with someone like that .. and if she were, then hell, no wonder she would feel like asking Why!

quote:

It would seem to me to be an abdication of her responsibilities to our dynamic for her to simply blindly accept my telling her to not take the promotion.


Given my answer above, it seems to me that such a relationship is already doomed to fail so I suppose it depends on the individual relationship dynamic. I know Himself well enough that if he were to tell me not to take a certain job (and he has, actually, done this exact thing) I know he has set it forth because it 'is' in the best interest of our relationship. I can blindly obey such a command, not ask 'why' and have no issue with asking 'what' the consequences are going to be for me taking a certain job or doing a certain thing. Again, though, I do believe this has come with time.. and in a different circumstance, I would, most likely, have a different answer. (maybe!)

quote:

This is just me, and I could be wrong.


Well, you 'could' be.. but I'd venture to say if that's how your dynamic works, then you're most likely not wrong.

I'm most likely not wrong either though, because this is what works in the dynamic I share with Himself. Neither of us can remember the last time I asked him 'why' to a command.. but, we're aging, the brain cells are dying out, so it could have been this morning and we just don't remember! ::laughs::


Celeste

::edited for re'dumb'dancy::

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 10/20/2006 8:46:01 PM >


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:47:28 PM   
Arpig


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I think that if a sub feels the need to know the "why" of a particular instruction, then by all means they should ask, and as promptly as possible. I also believe the dom should give them an answer as promptly as possible.
Keep in mind that depending on just what the instruction is, "Because I said so", "Because I want you to", and "Because I will thrash your ass if you don't" could very well be considered valid answers.

_____________________________

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Ha Ha...Charade you are!


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CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:49:51 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawne

 Oh wait! I get it!

"Why" is the curse word of today.

Hey?  - Must we all learn to ask "what".
Most whys could be replaced with whats.
We'll switch 'em up! That'll fool 'em!

Is "what" intrinsically more respectful? WHY?

If we all say "what" it will soon inplode. Go out of vogue. so yesterday... yawn.
 
And all those who happen to utter "what" will be deemed - incorrigible,  bitches and a peasant class of vapid "wannabes".
 
I am glad i am kidding  


Well, if we lose 'what', we can always move on to the ever popular "huh?"

::chuckles::

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Fawne)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:50:16 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
I'm a slave .. it's not my business to know such things.

To me, it's a slaves business to know what their owner wants them to know.  I know lots of owners who insist that their slave ask questions and be inquisitive.

quote:

I pretty much gave up "I want" as well.

I'm not sure a slave needs to give up what they want- after all they WANT to be good slaves and WANT to be obedient and WANT to give good service.  Asking questions is the way to do that, and for me it never ends.

quote:

I can blindly obey such a command, not ask 'why' and have no issue with asking 'what' the consequences are going to be for me taking a certain job or doing a certain thing. Again, though, I do believe this has come with time.. and in a different circumstance, I would, most likely, have a different answer. (maybe!)

I don't think you're blind at all here- you've got your years of experience to go on.  At some point all leaps of trust are blindly made- but you've got loads of little leaps made in order to make larger ones.  It's hardly a "blind process" and I don't think it ever should need to be.

quote:

So for me, 'why' is a challenge .. it questions purpose and motivation.. it questions reason, not bad things.. but unneeded at this stage of life with Himself.

Celeste


I think that makes perfect sense.

I also know many Ms long term relationships who feel exactly opposite.  As usual, it comes down to a matter of personal tastes and quirkiness.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:51:01 PM   
juliaoceania


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Gosh I thought I painted myself in a corner with all my translations

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:51:06 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
"Because I will thrash your ass if you don't" could very well be considered valid answers.


And motivation to ask Why! ::laughs::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:51:27 PM   
Kalira


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quote:

"Because I will thrash your ass if you don't

Hmmm...that was an answer that I often got when I asked 'why' lol. Of course, it just made me ask again...which in turn would lead to the duct tape...

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:52:35 PM   
DiurnalVampire


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From: Nashville, TN
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I never had a problem with being asked why as long as it was asked respectfully.  Now, when someone asks why as in what would possess you to do something like that... they dont tend to like their answer, nor the very prompt cessation of play.
Angel asks why I like things, or want things, or do things.  Thats fine, I am not hiding my motivations. 
However, if I dont feel like answering, he has been told I'll get back to you.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:52:46 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Keep in mind that depending on just what the instruction is, "Because I said so", "Because I want you to", and "Because I will thrash your ass if you don't" could very well be considered valid answers.


Actually he said very similar words tonight over the phone when discussing this thread...weg

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 8:54:27 PM   
Lordandmaster


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I disagree with this.  Experienced slaves can (and do) ask "why."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawne

It appears the more experienced slaves, generally  one's who are also in a secure LTR relationship, such as marriage paired with M/s are the one's who do not say "why".

(in reply to Fawne)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 9:06:13 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

To me, it's a slaves business to know what their owner wants them to know.  I know lots of owners who insist that their slave ask questions and be inquisitive.


I agree with this and just come from a place where I know if he thinks it's my business, he's going to tell me.

quote:


I'm not sure a slave needs to give up what they want- after all they WANT to be good slaves and WANT to be obedient and WANT to give good service.  Asking questions is the way to do that, and for me it never ends.


I used to 'want' all those things .. but now, I 'am' a good slave, I 'am' obedient and I 'do' give good service, so, it is, indeed, a matter of perspective.

quote:


I don't think you're blind at all here- you've got your years of experience to go on.  At some point all leaps of trust are blindly made- but you've got loads of little leaps made in order to make larger ones.  It's hardly a "blind process" and I don't think it ever should need to be.


Well said and a prospective that I do try to put forth in my posts. For me, this journey has been and continues to be a process, but most things are now internal reformations in order to better the person I am so the slave I have the potential to be has it's best opportunity for growth. Basically, I've gotten as much external 'help' with the process as I can get.. everything else is reworking what's already there, refining and tweaking it then letting it come out as better service (and attitude) to enhance our lives together.

quote:

I also know many Ms long term relationships who feel exactly opposite.  As usual, it comes down to a matter of personal tastes and quirkiness.


I totally agree with this statement.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/20/2006 10:02:39 PM   
adaddysgirl


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It almost sounds like it kind of depends on what the dominant expects in the relationship (which most subs probably have a good idea of right at the begining anyway).  With my former partner, i was not allowed to ask why if i already knew the answer was "because i said so" (or something along that line).  But i was allowed to ask if i really had no idea what was going on.  The trick was....i better not be stupid about it....lol. 
 
So some doms may require his (her) partner never ask;  some may say "ask away"; or some may be like mine.  i guess as long as it works for them, it doesn't really matter.....why....lol 
 
DG

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: That "Why" Question - 10/21/2006 7:30:17 AM   
Fawne


Posts: 462
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I disagree with this.  Experienced slaves can (and do) ask "why."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawne

It appears the more experienced slaves, generally  one's who are also in a secure LTR relationship, such as marriage paired with M/s are the one's who do not say "why".



I agree. 'Why' is just a word.
The fact is that we are here making an issue out of a neutral word.
 
The issue is really one of obedience and respect.
 
I ask 'why'. I am a curious person.
"Why is the sky blue?"

Love and laughs for all
fawne 
 
 

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 100
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