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Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 6:10:40 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I apologize right up front for this major RANT I am about to go on.

There are times today that I feel as though I am from the Dark Ages in this lifestyle. Maybe I am just getting old but in many ways I see changes happening here that I don’t necessarily think are for the good. Is it just me…am I the only one who sees it this way?

Isn’t one of the primary responsibilities of a Dominant/Master to guide his submissive/slave through her personal growth so that she can become the best she can be…in all aspects. Or has it just come to be about the kink?

I do not mean to imply that what I am about to say is what is occurring in all lifestyle households, but I have seen it increasing in frequency at an alarming rate.

I hear so many today claim they are submissive/slave, owned and guided by a loving Master/Dominant. They have the talk down pat. Then you get to know them a bit and you visit their home or see them away from the monthly play party. You walk in, their house is a wreck, they look like they dressed from a rag bag, their children are unkept, they are serving some sort of unrecognizable food for dinner, they are sometimes mouthy or at best ill grammared, sometimes even giving orders to their Dominants or arguing with them.

There sits Master/Dominant in his chair, seemingly oblivious to all that is going on around him. He doesn’t even seem to notice the sheer chaos of the situation. I have to wonder…..what exactly has he been teaching? Has he been teaching at all? Does he not think he has a responsibility outside of the bedroom?

I was brought up a tough, street fighting kid on the streets of Brooklyn, NY. I spent most of my teen years and many of my adult years in 1%er motorcycle clubhouses, rubbing elbows with guys who make Freddy Krueger look like the Easter Bunny. I can hold my own in any given situation…from a street fight, to a clubhouse, to a PTA meeting or a black tie affair. Why? Because I have been fortunate enough to have had Dominants in my life who have also guided me in all of the finer aspects.

The Dominant men in my life have taught me the importance of eloquence, of being a lady. It’s not always been about the finer art of blow jobs or how much one can take while bound to a cross. It has been charm school…..Dominant style. I have been taught to keep a proper home, how to entertain guests, what should or should not come out of my mouth in a public setting. I have been taught to look my best, to not be ashamed of my sexiness, but to embrace it with a degree of modesty also. I have been taught that it is ok to state my opinions, but that it is not ok to be argumentative for the sake of argument. I have been taught to be respectful.

I was also taught personal responsibility and accountability. What I say or write may influence another and it is my responsibility to choose my words with great thought. Once they’re out there…well, they’re out there. There are no do-overs. I am accountable for my actions and there are consequences that are mine alone to bear. I was taught the importance of honesty. Truth is far superior to a lie, even when it hurts. I was taught the importance of having personal integrity. To give thought to the code of personal morals and values which I choose to incorporate in my life, and then live by them.

Not to toot my own horn, but quite frequently I have had newer submissives come to me and say they are jealous of how easily this comes to me, how for me it seems to be so natural. EASY? Not on your life! I have worked my tail off at this to get to where I am today. Is that just a sign of the times? Do people today want everything to be simple, not worth working for? If submissive came in pill form would it be more popular than
Viagra?

Yes, they are right, when I walk into a room people tend to notice. I carry myself that way on purpose, because I have been taught poise and elegance. I have been taught to be warm, outgoing and kind. But don’t kid yourself into thinking this is just who I am. This is who I have become and it was a long and hard road with many skinned knees(and red bottoms) to get here. Am I proud? Damn straight I am! And when I walk into that room on the arm of my Sir you can bet he is proud too. But He too knows just what exactly it took to get me here. I’ve come along way from that street fighting kid in Brooklyn. Thank you to all of the Dominant men that have molded me to be who I am today. No matter where this life takes me, that will never be forgotten.


< Message edited by mistoferin -- 2/25/2005 5:48:33 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 6:36:29 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I think that was a good rant actually. I don't think things have changed much really though. While I think its the slaves job to enrich the life of the Owner as much as it is the Owner's to enrich the slaves (in whatever way they deem fit) I think the reality is that most "subs" are just husband-hunters in disguise who want "protectors" and most "doms" are insecure emotionally closed off people who use this as a way to have relationships without needing to admit their foibles.

Gross generalizations sure. But I understand your frustrations. However, it's not going to change. Let people talk as they want, do what they want, because they will anyway.

I'm SURE people have looked at my relationship and said "Oh, he lets her top other people, how can she be a REAL slave?" or "She doesn't even need to ask permission to go out at night, how submissive is THAT?"

Oh well.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 6:56:05 PM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
Status: offline 		In response to your rant. Yup..getting old.

A saying is when the policeman starts to look like a kid then you know you're old. It's a good feeling.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 6:56:41 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Access Denied

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 10:06:53 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 7:10:55 PM   
liltxsubby


Posts: 328
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: TX
Status: offline 		i think unfortunately that for a lot of people it is just about the kink. They miss a lot of the best things.

For me, it's about a lot more tha n kink. My Dom makes sure i do things that are best for me, and have nothing to do with kink. School, excercise, everything, and i wouldn't have it any other way.

_____________________________

I'm Japan and Godzilla has taken over.

Laugh with them, or let them laugh at you.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 7:34:12 PM   
newflowers


Posts: 292
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		Erin,

This is an excellent rant. I do not know that it is about getting old so much as I have not been in the lifestyle for that long. I recently told a friend that I would find another partner if and when he dropped out of the sky while I was out gardening. Perhaps it is an Internet thing. I did not meet my first and only Dominant partner via a BDSM site, in point of fact, I knew nothing of such things at the time. I find that I am frequently approached by "gentlemen" who wish to know about my sexual likes, dislikes, and preferences. They don't even know my last name before they want to know about my skill at giving head and I will frelly admit that I am bored with being told how un-submissive I am when I say I don't scene or have sex on a meet or a first date.

And so perhaps he will fall from the sky one day while I am out gardening. I leave my profile active and respond to most emails even if it is just to say thanks but no thanks.

newflowers

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 8:08:44 PM   
Bwana55419


Posts: 22
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I don’t see why anyone should care what others do in their relationships or what tag they want to give the relationship.
Not everyone wants to be with someone who is elegant; some people aren’t comfortable with those sorts of trappings.

It certainly sounds like you have found what works for you and what fits into your definition of how things should be done, I just don’t see a need for anyone else to share your view; nor do I see your view as being more correct.

(in reply to newflowers)
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 8:14:22 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Isn’t one of the primary responsibilities of a Dominant/Master to guide his submissive/slave through her personal growth so that she can become the best she can be…in all aspects. Or has it just come to be about the kink?


Well... here is what happens when you lump everything under the umbrella term BDSM. What you described applies to D/s or M/s relationships, but not to Bondage, Discipline or S&M.

I tend to put kink first. As far as I'm concerned I play with adults and they are in control of their own lives. I can learn as much from them as they can from me.

But that is my take on it and I respect those who see it your way. I don't think my way is the dark ages however.

- LA

P.S.: For the record, my house is spotless and I clean it myself :) And my submissive's houses are spotless and they clean them themselves :)

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/24/2005 8:20:29 PM >

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 8:25:43 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Well... here is what happens when you lump everything under the umbrella term BDSM. What you described applies to D/s or M/s relationships, but not to Bondage, Discipline or S&M.


Actually I was referencing D/s and M/s exclusively. I don't believe anywhere in my post that I referenced BDSM. I am not saying that I feel kink based relationships are wrong in anyway....what I am saying is that to say you are living D/s or M/s and the only thing you seem to incorporate is kink, is not an entirely accurate depiction of the common D/s, M/s relationship. To me the term Master or Dominant indicates that He will be able or teach me more skills than how to spread wide and take it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 8:28:28 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I just don’t see a need for anyone else to share your view; nor do I see your view as being more correct.


I certainly did not mean to imply that my views were more correct or that you had to share them. I also did not mean to imply that you or anyone else had to adopt my practices or philosophies. I wasn't trying to convert you.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Bwana55419)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 8:46:01 PM   
MadameBette


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: Long Island, NY
Status: offline 		Erin,
Great rant.
I understand what you are saying.
I’m staying with a D/s couple, and their relationship is much as you describe the ideal.
Watching them, I’m reminded of the phrase, “It’s the difference between fine dining and merely eating.”
Just my two cents.

~ Bette

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/24/2005 11:36:03 PM   
fencerpet19


Posts: 169
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline 		Wonderful rant!
I am very lucky to have a great Master who cares about how I present myself as well. In fact, I have almost entirely eliminated the word "yeah" from my vocabulary thanks to Him He is very intellectual and is a stickler on eloquence. I just began in this lifestyle recently, so perhaps there's hope out there for subs like us to continue into the future. Cheers,
~FP

(in reply to MadameBette)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 3:18:55 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Hello mistoferin,

Well, yes, on a website like this that caters publically to the whole of the pansexual kink rainbow, it is pretty much all about the kink, simply because there are far more kinky folk than there are people who think that D/s or M/s is something that applies outside of episodes of play.

quote:

Isn’t one of the primary responsibilities of a Dominant/Master to guide his submissive/slave through her personal growth so that she can become the best she can be…in all aspects. Or has it just come to be about the kink?


Damn. You used the R word (responsibility). Just the thing that many in a place like this were hoping to avoid. That's going to score you no points. Occupying a position of dominance with respect to another human being or a group of human beings infers that you have, by virtue of that dominance, greater control over choices that are made. If you are in a position of more or less absolute dominance (i.e. a Master/slave situation) where the choices are all yours, and the submissive party is expected to obey absolutely, then all of the control, more or less, is yours. There is a term that psychologists use for someone who does not feel responsiblity for the things that they can or ought to control. The term is "character disordered". Quite simply, the person in question is lacking in character. There are people who are disordered in the opposite direction too, in that they feel responsiblity for things over which they have no control.

The above is why it is very important for someone to ascertain the character of the man or woman to whom they think to submit. If you submit to someone who is character disordered to a greater or lesser degree, you are going to be at the whim of someone who accepts no responsibility for the consequences of the choices that you have empowered them to make for both of you. That can be a rather uncomfortable position to occupy. There are small subsets of the BDSM - D/s - M/s world that believe that attention to character should precede ascending to any position of dominance, but those groups are just that; small subsets.

I'm in basic agreement with what you've said. In my world that's just ownership. A man takes a slave as his property. Slaves are valuable. If they're managed correctly they become more so. If they are neglected or mismanaged, they tend to diminish in value. Either way, a man is responsible for the value of what he owns.

What you've described in your post are men who saw value in you, and sought to increase your value. They invested in you, and expected a return. They understood that what you would become was more or less in their hands, and accepted responsiblity for the outcome. If those men had expected less, you probably would have been less. There isn't anything wrong with that per se, if the man in question will settle for less and accept that he has less because he failed to invest. To me, these are just straightforward issues of property that ought to be easy for anyone to understand. But, as I said above, I'm part of a very small subset of the universe that this website is intended to serve.




< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/25/2005 4:30:20 AM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 4:01:59 AM   
Moleculor


Posts: 189
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		I realize that you don't specifically reference the whole of BDSM, but you're certainly inclusive in your use of both "dominant" and "master" as well as "submissive" and "slave". You certainly seem to -imply- that anyone labeling themselves as such (and therefore labeling themselves as enjoying BDSM) must conform to your picture of an ideal relationship and lifestyle, complete with all it's D/s trimmings. I'm glad you've been through your D/s charm school, but:

Why should I be expected to care about, have a clue about, or WANT to have a clue about motorcycle bars or black-tie affairs at the ripe old age of 22? What's next? Should I be able to correctly model the entirety of the universe in a computer program by the age of 23? Want me to master several martial arts forms by 24? Are social graces "required" for BDSM? Why for BDSM and not anything else? What makes them "more" required in BDSM? Why does a clean house or decent grammar require D/s? Why should D/s ultimately lead to proper grammar? Are we all supposed to become school teachers and professors, capable of writing six page essays in final draft quality on the first try too? Should I be able to juggle flaming knives as well?

Why should I conform to your expectations, and why does BDSM make your expectations any more "right" than in places outside of BDSM?

I'm glad you've gone from dominant to dominant who seem to care about which fork is the salad fork (and by the way, if you're going to talk about bad grammar, you should probably know that "dominant's" is not the plural form of dominant, it's the possessive), but I didn't realize that knowing such things was part of the list of requirements and instructions we all got before getting involved in BDSM. Think I should go turn my permit back in?

_____________________________

</sarcasm>

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 4:24:28 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Hello Moleculor,

It looks like you're responding to the OP, but its says in response to me. Could be that you just hit the "quick reply". At any rate, I certainly wasn't trying to imply that any particular qualities in a submissive or slave are more highly valued than others. If you (not meaning you specifically) are slovenly, and don't mind a filthy house, then of course, you probably wouldn't insist upon it. If you express yourself at the 7th grade level, of course it would follow that you wouldn't care how well your submissive or slave expressed him or herself. If you don't value high-class social interaction at all, it would certainly stand to reason that you wouldn't care if your submissive or slave were presentable in those situations.

I think that what the OP was suggesting, and what I was certainly suggesting, is that if you do value those qualities (or whatever other qualities you might value) and you simply bitch or sulk if your submissive or slave is not possessed of them, then you have little if any claim that you are the dominant party in the interaction outside of whatever kinky play goes on. None of this applies if the extent if your interaction is kinky play. Thus the title of the thread.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/25/2005 4:26:20 AM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Moleculor)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 5:25:04 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This has been a very awesome thread.

I just want to point out- I AM a kinky whore, I love to play, I love to fuck, I play and fuck at pretty much will, sometimes with someone I've just met a few hours prior. I enjoy the hell out of it and find a lot of fun in it. That IS a chunk of what bdsm is to me.

But, I also have lifelong commitments as property to the Owner.

They can exist simultaneously, it's not necessarily a choice of either/or or even having importance of one over the other. Take both for what they are and what they can bring. If you aren't a play slut, then don't play, if you aren't interested in a life commitment (which I don't think novices should be for a few months when they start) then don't go looking for it.

To me, this is all about being ME, whatever words you put to it or whoever else may be associated with what I do, that doesn't much matter. I AM being who I AM, and that involves a lot of sex, a lot of love, a lot of change, a lot of a lot of things. And I think most people are just trying to do the same.

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 5:47:38 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

but you're certainly inclusive in your use of both "dominant" and "master" as well as "submissive" and "slave". You certainly seem to -imply- that anyone labeling themselves as such (and therefore labeling themselves as enjoying BDSM) must conform to your picture of an ideal relationship and lifestyle, complete with all it's D/s trimmings.


Once again I will reiterate. Nowhere in my thread did I reference BDSM and I am not of the persuasion that feels the terms Dominant/Master and submissive/slave are clear indications that one is a practitioner of BDSM, at least not in the sense that everyone seems to throw that term around in. When I began this journey, that phrase had not been yet invented. I also never said that anyone had to conform to anything. I was merely making observations.

quote:

Why should I be expected to care about, have a clue about, or WANT to have a clue...


I don't EXPECT you to care, want or have a clue about anything. You do what makes you happy in this world. If what you care about is the kink and the titles....then by all means, have at it. I am certain you will not have trouble finding yourself a "slave" to "Master" that wants nothing more than a kinky lay.

quote:

Are social graces "required" for BDSM? Why for BDSM and not anything else?


Hmmm. I guess I was under the mistaken assumption that social graces are appreciated if not required in all aspects of a civilized society. Has that changed too?

quote:

Why should I conform to your expectations


Once again, I am not trying to convert you. Do what is right for you.

quote:

I'm glad you've gone from dominant to dominant who seem to care


I am too.

quote:

you should probably know that "dominant's" is not the plural form of dominant


It was a typo, thank you for pointing it out. I never said I was perfect.


_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Moleculor)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 5:58:05 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Damn. You used the R word (responsibility). Just the thing that many in a place like this were hoping to avoid. That's going to score you no points.


Good thing I didn't come here to win.

quote:

What you've described in your post are men who saw value in you, and sought to increase your value. They invested in you, and expected a return. They understood that what you would become was more or less in their hands, and accepted responsiblity for the outcome. If those men had expected less, you probably would have been less.


I am so fortunate that they had the wisdom to see through that hard interior and realize the potential I had. Thank goodness I had the opportunity to be under the care and guidance of men who understood their responsibility and took it seriously. Thank you for understanding.



_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 7:26:49 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

Well... here is what happens when you lump everything under the umbrella term BDSM. What you described applies to D/s or M/s relationships, but not to Bondage, Discipline or S&M.


Actually I was referencing D/s and M/s exclusively. I don't believe anywhere in my post that I referenced BDSM.


You didn't specify. You said "the lifestyle". Thank you for the specification now.

quote:

I am not saying that I feel kink based relationships are wrong in anyway....what I am saying is that to say you are living D/s or M/s and the only thing you seem to incorporate is kink, is not an entirely accurate depiction of the common D/s, M/s relationship. To me the term Master or Dominant indicates that He will be able or teach me more skills than how to spread wide and take it.


Title of your post: Is it all just about the kink today?
The second paragraph of your post: There are times today that I feel as though I am from the Dark Ages in this lifestyle. Maybe I am just getting old but in many ways I see changes happening here that I don’t necessarily think are for the good. Is it just me…am I the only one who sees it this way?

Perhaps you didn’t intend to say that kink based relationships were wrong in anyway. If that is the case, your words did not reflect your intentions. I am not trying to start an argument with you. I'd say on the whole, I appreciate your posts here and I have developed a certain amount of respect for you. I am simply trying to point out that your rant (as you called it) makes a value judgement, whether you want to recognise it or not, about what kind of D/s or M/s relationship is optimal.

Also, many have followed through, interpreting your words as saying that this type of relationship was the ideal. I can't hold you responsible for other people's postings, but this simply shows that I'm not the only one who interpreted your words as such.

In my opinion, the people you describe that live in less then savoury conditions are not that way because kink runs their relationship. They are that way because maybe a) they don't know any better or b) they have no self-discipline or pride or c) they just simply like living that way. Either way, it's their life and far be it from me to judge. I personally chose to fill my circle of friends with more evolved people. That's my choice.

You tell your story and I think it’s awesome that you’ve had people along the way that helped you turn into the strong woman you are today. I have had similar influences in my life but most of them were not in a D/s context. My mentors have been more in an academic/professional context.

Now let me explain to you why your model doesn’t work for me. I look at my current boys (I call my submissives, my boys). All of them without exception are the alpha males in their environments. They have made their way through the ranks and paid their dues and proven their abilities through systems other then D/s relationships. They have discovered their kink as adults and now are looking for a woman with the requisite strength to help them escape the pressures of every day life and surrender. Sure they could go to a ProDomme but they know it would not be the same. They need to develop trust and affection to really let go. They hand all their power over to me and you can not even imagine what kind of a rush it gives me to see these powerful men at my mercy. The relationships that I build with my boys are very strong and intimate. That, to me, is the beauty of power-exchange. That is what works for me.

I hope now you understand why your original post irked me. I’m glad you found a model that works for you. But you need to understand that other models work for the people that are in them. And these people are free to use the same terms as you, whether it be “lifestyle”, “D/s”, “M/s” or “Power-exchange” and give them their own meaning.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/25/2005 7:30:18 AM >

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Is it all just about the kink today? - 2/25/2005 7:43:57 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I am simply trying to point out that your rant (as you called it) makes a value judgement, whether you want to recognise it or not, about what kind of D/s or M/s relationship is optimal.


Lady Angelika,
I honestly do respect your thoughts, even if they are not condusive to mine. I was not trying to make value judgements and my apologies to you and anyone else who may perceive it that way. What I was trying to do is put my "Rant" out there for those who feel that something is lacking or who wish for something a bit deeper. For those who would like to entertain the idea that there is another way and that there are people out there who have and are living it that way. I am certainly not judging if your way is right or wrong....only expressing what is right for me. For me, this is the type of relationship that is optimal. That does not mean it has to be for you or anyone else. Be well.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 20
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