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RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 3:13:45 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Librarians are hot.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 6:33:29 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		A free clue for those who desperately need one - his assertion that everybody in America is "scared shitless" of illegal immigrants is a strawman argument.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 7:24:56 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
A private company runs the facility in Raymondville TX, and children are being locked up in adult style prisons for months at a time.. this is extremely troubling to me


I think this is an issue where we are on the same side julia ... but I will say, that I seriously doubt that is happening to the extent presented.
 
What I might suggest is that the article in question might contains a lot of spin. If it has four walls and bars on the windows, you could call it a jail ... but then again, in South Texas, most homes have bars on the windows.
 
The Hispanic lobby in south Texas is so powerful, I would doubt anything like that could be going on, and not be a major campaign issue.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 7:34:49 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		I'll give you this: Amy Goodman is a source of unbiased news and information just like Rush Limbaugh is a source of  unbiased news and information. She's as biased to the Left as Rush is to the right, and if one is a "journalist" then they both are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Amy Goodman of Democracy Now is an award winning journalist whose broadcast is listener supported...

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 9:07:25 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

A free clue for those who desperately need one - his assertion that everybody in America is "scared shitless" of illegal immigrants is a strawman argument.



Sure... Then why so much anxiety? People are equating the guy who cleans tables with terrorists. That sounds "Scared Shitless". Or let me rephrase.

Given the apparent fear surrounding people who don't have the PROPER PAPERS, Y'all sure are a bunch of pussies.

Better?






< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/25/2007 9:09:57 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 9:12:35 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I'll give you this: Amy Goodman is a source of unbiased news and information just like Rush Limbaugh is a source of unbiased news and information. She's as biased to the Left as Rush is to the right, and if one is a "journalist" then they both are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Amy Goodman of Democracy Now is an award winning journalist whose broadcast is listener supported...



But unlike Limbaugh, Couric, Lauer, and everyone else in the mainstream, rather than just print the propaganda Doug Feith was inventing in the Pentagon, she gave what history shows, to be an accurate account of Iraq's lack of threat to the United States.

Spin her all you want, but NOTHING beats being right years later when history gets around to giving grades.




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 10:09:27 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		The majority is against you, fargle - and rather than sink to your level, and start calling names, I think I'll just leave it at this: The USA willingly absorbs plenty of immigrants, and the way to come in is through the front door. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Sure... Then why so much anxiety? People are equating the guy who cleans tables with terrorists. That sounds "Scared Shitless". Or let me rephrase.

Given the apparent fear surrounding people who don't have the PROPER PAPERS, Y'all sure are a bunch of pussies.

Better?






(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 11:08:42 AM   
MistressDoMe


Posts: 295
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		I agree Sanity, we are a nation of immigrants, just come here legally.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 11:12:17 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Please name one U.S. citizen removed from the CONUS to Gitmo.



Jose Padilla

Next question?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 11:34:40 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

A free clue for those who desperately need one - his assertion that everybody in America is "scared shitless" of illegal immigrants is a strawman argument.



Sure... Then why so much anxiety? People are equating the guy who cleans tables with terrorists. That sounds "Scared Shitless". Or let me rephrase.

Given the apparent fear surrounding people who don't have the PROPER PAPERS, Y'all sure are a bunch of pussies.

Better?







Fargle, I don't think people are "scared shitless" of illegal aliens at all.
I think that we just want *OUR* government to do it's job for once and deport them like they're supposed to be doing.
I mean is there some problem there?
If people in government can't or won't  do the job then they need to quit! Resign.
I don't "hate" illegal aliens  but I don't have any sympathy for them either. I am concerned about being in close proximity to them as they have high rates of diseases like T.B. and also Leprosey!
All my dislike is more directed towards *MY* government for not doing it's job.
I mean when are they going to loosen up on the laws against bank robbery?
I find it very odd that people can be concerned about children in foreign countries but they'll walk right by homeless and unloved kids in this country!
I lived in an upper class town in New Hampshire for 10 years.
I noticed that there were people who had adopted children from foreign countries while about 40 miles south in Boston there were thousands of kids in state custody who could have used a stable home. That doesn't make any sense to me!
Those foreign countries need to take care of their own people.
Why should we be arguing over illegal aliens from Mexico or any other country when they should simply be returned to their home countries?
There's a few laws I don't like either but I have to obey them.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 12:24:43 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		deleted on further research 

< Message edited by WyrdRich -- 2/25/2007 12:33:25 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 12:33:17 PM   
Sternhand4


Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Please name one U.S. citizen removed from the CONUS to Gitmo.



Jose Padilla

Next question?

Sinergy

Padilla has never been sent to Gitmo..

He has been confined in a brig in NC and was released to face charges in Miami.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 12:38:30 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Please name one U.S. citizen removed from the CONUS to Gitmo.



Jose Padilla

Next question?

Sinergy

Padilla has never been sent to Gitmo..

He has been confined in a brig in NC and was released to face charges in Miami.



I can't remember anything about Padilla being sent to GTMO, he was I believe in the U.S. Navy Brig in Charleston, SC about two hours South from here for a while I think.

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 2:17:40 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Please name one U.S. citizen removed from the CONUS to Gitmo.



Jose Padilla

Next question?

Sinergy

Padilla has never been sent to Gitmo..

He has been confined in a brig in NC and was released to face charges in Miami.



I can't remember anything about Padilla being sent to GTMO, he was I believe in the U.S. Navy Brig in Charleston, SC about two hours South from here for a while I think.


My mistake, he was captured at O'Hare airport and detained for 3.5 years without ever being brought up on charges or facing his accusers.   This is in strict violation of the Article 6 of the United States Bill of Rights.

So you are correct, no US citizen was ever sent to Gitmo.

Sinergy 

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 2:50:08 PM   
Sternhand4


Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		[/quote]

My mistake, he was captured at O'Hare airport and detained for 3.5 years without ever being brought up on charges or facing his accusers.   This is in strict violation of the Article 6 of the United States Bill of Rights.

So you are correct, no US citizen was ever sent to Gitmo.

Sinergy 
[/quote]

No problem, His case is troubling on a few fronts.
But it has brought to  the higher courts attention this style of detention.
I did some research after you posted the name.
It appears that Padilla is a longterm knucklehead, but he deserves his day in court.
good article here.. http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/04/padillas-real-message-grace-period-is.php


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 3:08:14 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:



My mistake, he was captured at O'Hare airport and detained for 3.5 years without ever being brought up on charges or facing his accusers.   This is in strict violation of the Article 6 of the United States Bill of Rights.

So you are correct, no US citizen was ever sent to Gitmo.

Sinergy 


No problem, His case is troubling on a few fronts.
But it has brought to  the higher courts attention this style of detention.
I did some research after you posted the name.
It appears that Padilla is a longterm knucklehead, but he deserves his day in court.
good article here.. http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/04/padillas-real-message-grace-period-is.php




He has the constitutionally guaranteed right to a speedy trial.

He was denied this by the Bush administration et al.

I say we give everybody involved a chance to spend some time in the Big House.  They swore to uphold and defend the constitution and egregiously failed to do so.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/treason

Enjoy!

Sinergy

edited for quote issues.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 3:38:22 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
A private company runs the facility in Raymondville TX, and children are being locked up in adult style prisons for months at a time.. this is extremely troubling to me


I think this is an issue where we are on the same side julia ... but I will say, that I seriously doubt that is happening to the extent presented.
 
What I might suggest is that the article in question might contains a lot of spin. If it has four walls and bars on the windows, you could call it a jail ... but then again, in South Texas, most homes have bars on the windows.
 
The Hispanic lobby in south Texas is so powerful, I would doubt anything like that could be going on, and not be a major campaign issue.


But people can leave the homes with bars on the windows and kids can be with their parents at night if they are sick or have a bad dream, and they get to go to school.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 3:43:06 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I wonder why they didn't charge this guy?
They should have right away.
I really don't know anything about this case only saw it in the news a few times.
If they had the goods on him he should have been arraigned right away.
The assholes in GTMO. are al qeada.
I don't know why people are concerned with their "rights" as they have none.
They're POWs they can be held for the duration of the war according to Geneva Conventions.
I don't think we can ever let them go, what do people think they'd do if they got loose?
And why should the Taxpayers be paying for Qurans for them?
"Sorry Achmed, we're all out of Qurans, check out this Bible."

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 5:14:28 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I'll give you this: Amy Goodman is a source of unbiased news and information just like Rush Limbaugh is a source of unbiased news and information. She's as biased to the Left as Rush is to the right, and if one is a "journalist" then they both are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Amy Goodman of Democracy Now is an award winning journalist whose broadcast is listener supported...



But unlike Limbaugh, Couric, Lauer, and everyone else in the mainstream, rather than just print the propaganda Doug Feith was inventing in the Pentagon, she gave what history shows, to be an accurate account of Iraq's lack of threat to the United States.

Spin her all you want, but NOTHING beats being right years later when history gets around to giving grades.





I believe that when history is giving out grades Amy Goodman will at least pass the smell test of repeating repeating repeating what some politician says.

I remember listening to her interview with Bill Clinton.. she grilled him on substantial things, (this was on election day when Al Gore was running against Bush), and Clinton's people called her and told her she would never have "access" to him after that interview.. I guess she actually did her job and asked hard questions, and because that just isn't done, she will never get a Bill Clinton interview again... I loved her response to the Clinton people...Paraphrasing here:

"I told them 'Access? I didn't know I had 'access' to Bill Clinton in the first place"

She has a different slant for sure, but she gets her facts right, and she gets the stories we hear nothing about... the kind that make you think "wtf?"

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Locking Up the Huddled Masses - 2/25/2007 6:16:10 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The majority is against you, fargle - and rather than sink to your level, and start calling names, I think I'll just leave it at this: The USA willingly absorbs plenty of immigrants, and the way to come in is through the front door.



True or not, the overreaction to Pedro washing dishes for below minimum wage sounds like the ravings of delusional paranoiacs. But hey, y'all justify your fall towards totalitarianism however you want.

FREE MEN AND WOMEN DO NOT CARRY PAPERS. How you going to deal with that in your world of "MACHT SCHNELL, PAPERS!!"???



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 180
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