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What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 10:11:00 AM

Shylahgirl

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Joined: 8/28/2006
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What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you?

Is there a difference for you?

Note: These are all my own opinions and points of view. Not a critisizem of others.

In my mind the terms slave and submissive are very different things.

To me slave is more of a fantasy term, because when I think about it, real slavery is completely impossible to achieve in a safe, sane, and consensual situation. Slavery, in my mind, is the forced servitude of another. Where the “slave” has no say in what happens to them, they live in fear of punishment, and feel that there’s not way out if they want to leave the relationship.

In a safe, sane and consensual relationship there can not be any force; each party is allowed to leave at anytime. So therefore in my opinion the term slave is just a fantasy and no one can really be in a healthy relationship and still be a slave

(Note: There are abusive relationships out there that the “slave” is really a slave and does not feel that that have the choice weather or not to leave. But of course we do not call those relationships safe or sane or consensual and hopefully no one calls them D/s).

Submission is the term that I prefer. For me to submit is to give your self willingly to another, all the time knowing that you can pick up and leave but choosing not to. In my view being trained to be submissive would boost your self confidence and if the relationship does end, you are a better stronger person then you were when you went into it.

Of course these are all my own opinion and I don’t expect anyone to shear the same views; which is why I’m posting this topic, I want to see what other people think.

Please be kind with your responses… every time I post a topic there’s always a few who can never say anything positive and choose to only say hurtful things about myself or the Master to whom I am owned, because they do not shear my same view.

I'm tired of feeling personally attaced for my points of view.

Shylah

< Message edited by Shylahgirl -- 2/27/2007 11:01:20 AM >

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 10:13:31 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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You call yourself owned. The fact of this ownership exists only within your mind/psyche/emotions. Does this mean your being owned is a fantasy?

Just because we don't use words the way they were SOMETIMES USED historically, does not mean that it is the universal, or present definition. It doesn't mean that our relationships as we form and use them today are fantasies or unhealthy.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_797601/mpage_2/key_historical/tm.htm#797921
so you think you are really a slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_586226/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#586267
Curious, sub v slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_515303/mpage_1/key_slave/tm.htm#515333
What is the difference?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308296/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#309867
sub or slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_342405/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#342794
~slave vs sub~

http://www.collarchat.com/m_410567/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#410982
slave or sub

http://www.collarchat.com/m_497775/mpage_1/key_submissive%252Cslave/tm.htm#497977
I'm new to this but...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_366860/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#366893
Difference bet/submission and slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_365776/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#366767
slub question

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281198/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#281512
difference between slave and submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_251014/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#251062
definition of "slave"

What's the difference between slaves and submissives?

Submissive or slave?

Slaves versus submissive

Submissive or slave? (2)

Submissive vs slave (2)

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 2/27/2007 10:17:58 AM >

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 11:52:45 AM

bearincuffs

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Joined: 12/16/2006
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For the most part I do agree with you but with some differences.

My own definition of slave is being both simular and different to being a submissive. The dynamics are more in the sense a slave has given up most of not all control to someone else. From my understanding is overall, being submissive has more freedom to assert their own choices over their wants and needs. Whereas for most slaves, this option is no longer available, yet in both cases they still retain the right to walk away when that relationship is no longer safe and consensual.

Yet with each person's dynamics, they help create a sub or slave relationship that works best for them and their Doms. It's just a matter of working on what works for you. I know how I see what is a slave and what is a sub may not follow the general views held by others but that is ok. Everyone has their own opinion and they all are valid.

< Message edited by bearincuffs -- 2/27/2007 11:53:22 AM >

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An it harm none, do as thou wilt
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An it harm none, do what thou will
That it harm none, do as thou wilt
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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 12:06:54 PM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

For myself; slave is who I am to Master; submissive is what i am to both Master and others.

< Message edited by jauntyone -- 2/27/2007 12:07:08 PM >

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 12:23:43 PM

imthesimpleone

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Joined: 8/24/2006
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To me submission is similar to the control the U.S. has over free speech. Submissives can control the time, place, and manner in which they choose to submit.

Slaves give over that choice to their owners whom they trust to make those decisions for them....since they possess such infinite understanding of them as individuals. At least that has been my opinion as both a submissive and slave in training.

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 12:30:51 PM

Lawrence111

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Joined: 6/10/2004
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I wrote a brief essay on this a few years ago ... there may still be a few typos, but it's a short read

http://home.luna.nl/~laurenz/Definitions.htm

HTH,

Lawrence
Ithaca, NY

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Yoda, my English Teacher was.

***********

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Answer: "The Beast That Eats Only Male Virgins"

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 1:26:55 PM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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My opinion is that every passing day the terms mean less to me on a personal level. I know the direction I am heading with my Daddy is what some would think of as "slavery", but it does not matter to me what others think of it. He is my Daddy, I am not his slave. He thinks of me as belonging to him, I feel as though I do. When he collars me that is forever, it is not a temporary condition for us. He will think of that as owning me... and in some ways I can tell by things he has said to me that he feels I am his possession already.

The point is everyone defines the boundaries of their personal situation differently. I know for some there is a real meaningful difference in these terms, but for me they are meaningless.. it is kinda like trying to describe the way you love someone, sometimes words just do not do a thing justice.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 1:53:31 PM

tricia

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

The point is everyone defines the boundaries of their personal situation differently. I know for some there is a real meaningful difference in these terms, but for me they are meaningless.. it is kinda like trying to describe the way you love someone, sometimes words just do not do a thing justice.

So simple. If only it could be the last word on a never ending "debate".

(in reply to juliaoceania)

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 2:50:45 PM

bandit25

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Joined: 6/18/2005
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The terms are pretty meaningless to me also. They seem to apply to other people...what I mean is that other people seem to need them and I'm not quite sure why.

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 3:05:37 PM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

my personal pov (flame away when i'm finished).

a submissive to me is a strong, self-motivated, successful, confident, high self-esteem, organized, goal-minded person who wouldn't work well in a micromanaged and/or TPE envirnonment. they seek to enhance and expand the gifts and talents already possessed and/or obtain more with guidance. they don't use words like "i think i deserve His love" because they already know they're loved. this description describes me.

a slave to me is someone who is clingy, less goal oriented, not so much motivated unless their Dom tells what to do and how to do it, unorganized and works best in a D/s relationship that involves task type of servitude and TPE. there's probably signs of low self-esteem and confidence. they hope someday to live up to their Master's expectations and earn his love.

as i stated earlier - my personal point of view. you may now flame away.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 3:07:12 PM

Jasmyn

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Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
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To me they are one and same ... no difference ...

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 3:10:43 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

a slave to me is someone who is clingy, less goal oriented, not so much motivated unless their Dom tells what to do and how to do it, unorganized and works best in a D/s relationship that involves task type of servitude and TPE. there's probably signs of low self-esteem and confidence. they hope someday to live up to their Master's expectations and earn his love.

Oh my......

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 3:11:33 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl
a slave to me is someone who is clingy, less goal oriented, not so much motivated unless their Dom tells what to do and how to do it, unorganized and works best in a D/s relationship that involves task type of servitude and TPE. there's probably signs of low self-esteem and confidence. they hope someday to live up to their Master's expectations and earn his love.

as i stated earlier - my personal point of view. you may now flame away.

Nothing to flame really, but I'll ask you this.

I was an owned slave while I was the chair of the board for a local organization. What would you have done if you had attended a business meeting I chaired? Would you have considered me unmotivated, lacking confidence...or would you have told me that my label for myself is incorrect?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 3:23:30 PM

valeca

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Joined: 1/9/2006
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No flames from me, sambamanslilgirl, but I will wholeheartedly disagree with your view of a slave.

I could probably introduce you to a baker's dozen of slaves who are the antithesis of what you describe. I could also introduce you to just as many submissives who would fall into your definition of slave but wouldn't identify as such.

I like how bandit said it. Some people need a title (of sorts) to identify with, some don't. I identify as 'His'. Beyond that, it doesn't really matter.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 3:29:02 PM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
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first of all, did you exhibit your slaveness into the public world or was it behind closed doors? did everyone on the board fully know and comprehended that you were owned as slave?

granted there are those who are "successful" in the vanilla life however for some reason they exhibit tendencies of slave mentality (low self-esteem and lack confidence to motivate) deep inside themselves because they need someone to tell them constantly "you're doing a good job" or "you need to get this and this done".

me on the other hand, i was raised to think and be independent and self-motivated and that's why cannot see myself in a slave position because of the way i was raised to think.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 3:31:18 PM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

a slave to me is someone who is clingy, less goal oriented, not so much motivated unless their Dom tells what to do and how to do it, unorganized and works best in a D/s relationship that involves task type of servitude and TPE. there's probably signs of low self-esteem and confidence. they hope someday to live up to their Master's expectations and earn his love.

Oh my......

speak your mind - i'm big girl and can handle it

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 3:40:05 PM

valeca

Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

granted there are those who are "successful" in the vanilla life however for some reason they exhibit tendencies of slave mentality (low self-esteem and lack confidence to motivate) deep inside themselves because they need someone to tell them constantly "you're doing a good job" or "you need to get this and this done".

me on the other hand, i was raised to think and be independent and self-motivated and that's why cannot see myself in a slave position because of the way i was raised to think.

Just a question:

What in your experiences has fostered these impressions you have about those who identify as slave?

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 3:54:56 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

a slave to me is someone who is clingy, less goal oriented, not so much motivated unless their Dom tells what to do and how to do it, unorganized and works best in a D/s relationship that involves task type of servitude and TPE. there's probably signs of low self-esteem and confidence. they hope someday to live up to their Master's expectations and earn his love.

Oh my......

speak your mind - i'm big girl and can handle it

slg, speaking my mind would be pointless if this is how you see those of us who identify as slaves. You've been on the boards long enough to see the many slaves who are nothing like your description...., but you are most definitely entitled to your opinion.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 4:10:43 PM

SilverShadows

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Frankly I prefer the term servitude. Slavery has a very specific meaning, just as serf, bondsman, etc do. I get irritated when people call serf’s slaves etc. Servitude comes in many flavors. That said that people choose to use the word slavery in the D&S world means within that context what do people mean. Now there is the rub because they mean many different things, thus your question. I can not answer for everyone so I will give how I use the term.

I see D&S slavery as an extreme form of submission. A slave gives away most of their negotiated rights and accepts a form of servitude selected by their Master/Mistress. Where you draw the line between a submissive and slave is arbitrary. But I roughly draw it where the submissive says, “You write/developed the contract and I will sign/agree to it unread/heard.” That contract could include that the rules change at the whim of the Mistress/Master as is the case in some relationships where the rules are never explicitly stated.

In my household a slave would have agreed to forfeit the rights granted all family members and receive only those that are due to all humans under my care.

The topic came up between my partner, myself, and a potential family member. It was clear we all had different opinions. My partner’s was quite simple if you wear a collar for someone. I was never totally sure what the submissive’s opinion was negotiations broke down for other reasons.

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RE: What do the terms slave and submissive mean to you? - 2/27/2007 4:34:19 PM

BBBTBW

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Joined: 5/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

my personal pov (flame away when i'm finished).

a slave to me is someone who is clingy, less goal oriented, not so much motivated unless their Dom tells what to do and how to do it, unorganized and works best in a D/s relationship that involves task type of servitude and TPE. there's probably signs of low self-esteem and confidence. they hope someday to live up to their Master's expectations and earn his love.

as i stated earlier - my personal point of view. you may now flame away.

I am glad we are all allowed to define who we are on a personal basis. WOW

_____________________________

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means" -- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

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