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safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 12:20:41 PM   
fusion


Posts: 31
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings all,  I am to my mind a journeymen master with four years full time very active domination under my belt.  I was mentored in my first year and last week at public play at the club my mentor owns.  I had my sub tied down with the fuck machine in one end and I in her mouth.  As a sign of honor I suppose I let him cane her.  He is rather a sadist and managed to get her to say "Red"  I noticed though distracted  as I was, he applied three more stokes before stopping.  During our drive home in what I would call "After care" I asked about the three strokes in question.  She to my mind was not in sub space, as she is unable to talk when there.  Did not seem to object to his delayed stopping.   So as I try to get to the absolute edge of edge play, what say yeah?

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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 12:28:22 PM   
mbes


Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline 		Someone who took three more strokes after I safe-worded would be someone I wouldn't trust to play with again.
That could just be me, though.

(in reply to fusion)
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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 12:31:06 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		if a safe word is called...the pain administration should stop in my mind....other wise what is the point?

if the dom chooses to run roughshod over the safe word, well i should think some one should sit down and talk to him.

i know that it takes a lot to use a safe word....i am barely hanging on to sanity if i ever get to the clarity and focus enough to use it....and if the dom chose to continue he would in my opinion have crossed the line to assault.

the sub in question does not seem to mind, right now...ask her in a few days....a violation like this sometimes does not register for a while...

but since you are looking for information here, i for one will tell you that what he did was cross a line, a line that could have been disatrerous....

lucky for him and you and her you all may have dodged a bullet here.

but dont do it again.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 12:34:08 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fusion

Did not seem to object to his delayed stopping.  



It would probably be helpful to learn more about this.  Lacking that......

I suppose you already had an understanding with her that you would allow another to play with her.  Your wording made it seem as if you felt obligated because of your prior relationship with the man, and that your sub was 'payment in kind' or somesuch.  Perhaps I am just reading too literally.

As to the actual question, in my mind he should have done the honorable thing and stopped immediately.  Then again, you, the person in control of your own property, should have better protected your property.  That she took the three more but 'didn't seem to object' makes me wonder about her as well.  If she 'cried wolf' when she used the safe word the first time, but happily took three more, then of what value are safe words at all.

I'm the first one to admit that I'll try and determine limits, be they physical, psychological, emotional.  I'll freely admit that they are templates for the present and future, that the lines can be extended as time goes on.  Most submissives in my care in the past understand that a safe word is really a last resort.  I probably haven't heard a safe word but two or three times in all my years.  Submissives often like to 'be' pushed, and they don't really wish to 'cry wolf'.  If anything, they would rather die than use a safe word, just for their pride if nothing else.

But I stop when I think it's appropriate, or when a safe word is used, whichever comes first.

Jeff

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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 12:34:54 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		you have been active for years....i am curious as to what action you did take?

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 12:39:58 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

if a safe word is called...the pain administration should stop in my mind....other wise what is the point?

if the dom chooses to run roughshod over the safe word, well i should think some one should sit down and talk to him.

i know that it takes a lot to use a safe word....i am barely hanging on to sanity if i ever get to the clarity and focus enough to use it....and if the dom chose to continue he would in my opinion have crossed the line to assault.

the sub in question does not seem to mind, right now...ask her in a few days....a violation like this sometimes does not register for a while...

but since you are looking for information here, i for one will tell you that what he did was cross a line, a line that could have been disatrerous....

lucky for him and you and her you all may have dodged a bullet here.

but dont do it again.


I wholeheartedly agree & might I add that when you are engaging in activities that involve others in the interaction with your sub/bottom that you keep a clear head & not be distracted because ultimately you are responsible for her safety.

Saying you were distracted because you were getting your cock sucked is no excuse... it reveals that you are not capable of maintaining a responsible stance of ensuring your, hers or anyone's safety during a scene while this activity is happening. Take this situation as a sign that you have to keep your head during a scene & you are just as responsible as your sub/bottom is at determining when things have gone too far. It is not the responsibility of the sub/bottom to stop a scene... it is the dominant's responsibility to ensure that the scene does not cross lines so that a safeword is needed.

In the case of planning to use a safeword to push things to the edge then by all means make sure you have a clear head because it is obvious that the sub/bottom is going to be processing entirely new & unexplored sensations.

(edited to add) aftercare takes place on the car ride out of there???


< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 4/5/2007 12:48:29 PM >

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MstrssPassion


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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 12:40:42 PM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fusion

Greetings all,  I am to my mind a journeymen master with four years full time very active domination under my belt. 


What is a journeymen Master?

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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 12:43:44 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		He should have stopped immediately.

More importantly is that her well being is your responsibility yet you did not stop him, you allowed him to continue. If I were your sub, I would refuse to play with anyone else you chose ever again simply because I wouldn't feel safe. I might not feel safe playing hard with you in the future either. She safe worded and you chose to ignore it. The fault isn't his, it's yours because she's yours.

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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 12:46:32 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		In my opinion when a safe word is used play should stop immediately.
There may be a few reasons why your sub didn't seem to mind him not stopping immediately. One of those is she did mind and just didnt want to tell you. She called her safe word before really neccesary or maybe she hasn't registered she minds yet.
A few things you say worry me for an experienced master you claim to be. One is that you surely should know if a sub says her safe word then play should stop immediately. The second is that you should never be distracted enough to nearly not notice your sub has called her safe word. Thirdly i would have thought you would have said something immediately to the dom who hadn't stopped at the use of a safe word.
I personally would not play again with the dom who had not stopped and would be very reluctant to trust you again after not protecting me or dealing with the issue.
Just my opinion.

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RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/5/2007 12:53:58 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		jour·ney·man (jûr'nē-mən)
n.
  1. One who has fully served an apprenticeship in a trade or craft and is a qualified worker in another's employ.
  2. An experienced and competent but undistinguished worker.

what i take it to mean, drawn, is that he has apprenticed, he does not feel like he is a fully realized master.....however as MstrssPassion  wisely points out.....he has her in his care, and is therefore responsible for her well being and getting his cock sucked is no excuse for allowing a violation of her personal space.
 
what most likely happened is that he abdicated the authority she gave him to his mentor, as what he calls a sign of respect, yet some how i doubt that she knew he had done so....or had agreed to it.

this was a big error in judgment, however we all make mistakes, and as that he is here asking about it , it obviously haunts him and he is trying to reconcile himself with what happend and learn from it
 
 

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/5/2007 1:03:15 PM   
TheHousehold


Posts: 33
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline 		Safewords are sacrosanct.  Ignore one just once, and that is it.

I agree wholeheartedly with Celeste.  Your sub should walk away from you and not come back.

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RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/5/2007 1:04:04 PM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

jour·ney·man (jûr'nē-mən)
n.
  1. One who has fully served an apprenticeship in a trade or craft and is a qualified worker in another's employ.
  2. An experienced and competent but undistinguished worker.


what i take it to mean, drawn, is that he has apprenticed, he does not feel like he is a fully realized master.....


ahhhh.......thanks a bunch. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a term that I didn't know. :)

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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 1:07:52 PM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fusion

Greetings all,  I am to my mind a journeymen master with four years full time very active domination under my belt.  I was mentored in my first year and last week at public play at the club my mentor owns.  I had my sub tied down with the fuck machine in one end and I in her mouth.  As a sign of honor I suppose I let him cane her.  He is rather a sadist and managed to get her to say "Red"  I noticed though distracted  as I was, he applied three more stokes before stopping.  During our drive home in what I would call "After care" I asked about the three strokes in question.  She to my mind was not in sub space, as she is unable to talk when there.  Did not seem to object to his delayed stopping.   So as I try to get to the absolute edge of edge play, what say yeah?


There are actually a couple of things here that personally concern me....immediately of course, your friend giving three more strokes after your submissive called her safe word.....in my little part of the world that is just not a good thing in any fashion.  Very poor judgement on your friend's part and I am curious what if anything you said or did about it.
Secondly.....you "suppose" you let him cane her?  You aren't sure?  Is it something that just happened?  From your own words it does not sound like you gave permission, yet when the caning started you did not stop it either....are you intimidated by your friend and possibly afraid to say, no don't do that, no do not touch her???
Did your friend even ask if he could cane her?   Just curious since you "suppose" you let him. 
Very confused.
Edit to add:  Hmmmm....maybe there is a comma missing....
You "suppose" you let him cane her as a sign of honor..or..as stated you aren't sure if you let him or not.  Eh....either way it does not seem like you were completely comfortable with it, regardless that you were distracted by a blow job.....which is (as stated by someone else) very irresponsible on your part.  4 years or not, you obviously do not know how to ensure your submissives well being.
Flame on, flame off IDC.

< Message edited by OhBeMyMind -- 4/5/2007 1:14:17 PM >

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~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 1:12:16 PM   
justinedoll


Posts: 50
Joined: 8/10/2006
From: uk, poland, germany
Status: offline 		some people need it some no

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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 1:20:40 PM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

So as I try to get to the absolute edge of edge play, what say yeah?


This comment concerns me more than everything else you have said. What does riding the edge of edge play have to do with this situation, or with a safe word? You don't increase edge play by pushing her past her safe word. Quite the opposite, the more you push the edge, the more she needs to have trust that you will honor her safe word when she needs it.

So, I hope you are better at honoring her safe word than your "mentor" was.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 1:20:59 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		as you yourself say....you have been very active for 4 years...in all that time have you ever heard of some one safewording meaning  they wanted "more"?

c'mon...

please come back though...i know you are online still...this is a good thread, and a good discussion, and you are not a bad fellow, you may have to take some lumps, but over all you will become a better person and a better master...and that is the goal right?






_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 1:23:45 PM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		fusion,
 
I do hope you take to heart the opinions and concerns left here.  You asked them...and they delivered. 
 
I share them...as well as some concern for the remark "He is rather a sadist and managed to get her to say 'Red'."  Whaddup with that...was it a contest?
 
B

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RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/5/2007 1:27:29 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

this was a big error in judgment, however we all make mistakes, and as that he is here asking about it , it obviously haunts him and he is trying to reconcile himself with what happend and learn from it
 
 


I hope you're right but the fact is that he blames his mentor for doing this. He shows no signs of remorse for not being in control of the situation nor expressed any intentions of preventing such a situation from happening again.

My definition of a dom is a person who wants the responsibility as much as the rights. I don't get that sense from the op.

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RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/5/2007 1:34:17 PM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

as you yourself say....you have been very active for 4 years...in all that time have you ever heard of some one safewording meaning  they wanted "more"?

c'mon...

please come back though...i know you are online still...this is a good thread, and a good discussion, and you are not a bad fellow, you may have to take some lumps, but over all you will become a better person and a better master...and that is the goal right?







Totally agree with you. 
I was always told it takes a bigger, stronger person to admit when they are in the wrong and take measures to learn from theirself than it does someone who passes the buck and buries their head in the sand.   (Or something along those lines, me head tis a bit in the clouds) 
Curious to see which road he takes.

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

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RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/5/2007 1:44:41 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		Yes Celeste i hear you...I do, it took a while for me to calm down myself....but my thought here is that he came here, he asked the question, he has been around for a while so he most likely knew he would take a few lumps, so he deflected them as best he could....Studdies show that support and encouragement are 40 times more likely to shift behaviors then shame, lectures and punishment. For the sake of all the future girls in his stewardship i would prefer that his behavior shifts and he learns...and i just dont think he will if we all gang up on him.

In all the many years you and i have been on this board and the other one....we can both say it is a rare person who comes back to the thread, takes his lumps, learns from his mistakes and becomes a better person right there in front of your eyes....its rare but it has happened...and it is really cool when it does. so i guess i was trying to foster an environment where its ok to be human and admit that mistakes happen, and that we can grow from them.



_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to Celeste43)
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