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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 5:35:07 AM

sharainks

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I'm also on the side that says we have enough criminals here without importing them. The fact is that a percentage of any population will commit crimes.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 5:51:08 AM

Aileen68

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There are really, really good, law abiding, hard working citizens in this country.
There are also many scumbag citizens that have been born and raised here.
Just as there are the same for illegals. Some are good. Some aren't.
I think it's more of a "type of person" thing going on here rather than a "where he's from" thing.
This story was major headlines in the local news by six the next morning. It's sad. It doesn't really matter whether or not the trigger was pulled by someone legal or illegal. Same end result. My solution...execute em all. Yes...I support the death penalty.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 7:12:42 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

These assholes wanted to pass judgment on someone,for the way they got sick,rather than just do the christian thing, and care for them.

While I have studied the writings of the religion, I do not consider myself a Christian. One reasons is this sort of tendency on members of the Religous Right to not care for the afflicted as their Religious tenets dictate they should.

Mother Theresa was a Christian. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, AnencephalyBoy, strike me as people who have fallen far from the path the alleged founder of the religion set for his followers to walk.

Sinergy

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 7:29:59 AM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It was news before they had arrested anyone.

It became bigger news when people found out that one of the arrested suspects was an illegal alien.

And it became even bigger news when people found out that the illegal alien had already been released on bail TWICE this year. Evidently no one thought to check his residency status.

Yeah, this whole argument is kind of off-topic, but i also saw this on a Yahoo News headline the day after it happened, when they had no arrests and the survivor was still unconscious... caught my eye because i work for a company based in Newark, and almost every day i'm reminded of how lucky i am to not be up at Corporate. We're not quite so bad off as a country yet that the murder of four college-bound teens still goes completely unremarked.

There does seem to be a good portion of northern New Jersey that pretty much needs to be nuked from orbit... Newark, Passaic, Paterson, etc...

i don't know which is worse, our immigration system or our criminal justice system.

quote:

Carranza was indicted by grand juries in New Jersey twice this year -- in April on aggravated assault and weapons charges; and in July on 31 counts which included aggravated sexual assault of a child under 13 years old and endangering the welfare of a child he had a duty to supervise. He was released on $50,000 bail on the assault case, which stemmed from a barroom fight, and $150,000 bail on the sexual assault indictment, which charged that the abuse began in 2003 when the girl was 4 years old and continued to this year. In the Oct. 1, 2006, barroom brawl at Huguoito's Bar in West Orange, he faces four counts of aggravated assault and weapons charges.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 7:48:19 AM

substobbws

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Normally when I pay for something and don't get it, I want my money back. If you were to poll U.S. citizens, do you not think a majority would say that controlling our borders are one of the things we pay for? Not only have we not gotten what we've already paid for, but we will be forced to finance whatever programs they come up with, whether they work or not. At least pass a national sales tax and force them to pay income tax when they spend their money when there's a way to, eliminating part of the earning advantage they have from dollar one by not having deductions, making legals a little more competitive.

Concerning the use of the word bigot. I'm new on this board, but it doesn't surprise me considering what we're already going through on the gun control thread. Personal attacking and insulting are seen as obvious crutches to prop up what you must already think are weak positions, otherwise you wouldn't see the need to lower yourself to using them. I don't possess the lack of intelligence required to use them.

If I could walk across the Canadian border and make ten times what I do here? I bet I might see a lot of you there! It's their government's fault if they let me in. How about we only protect our southern border as well as Mexico protects it's own southern border, because they don't want competition for dollars being sent home. These people coming here, if their home countries would get rid of their own corruptions and adopt capitalism, they wouldn't have to come here in the first place. The world either hates us, is trying to get here, or both.

< Message edited by substobbws -- 8/11/2007 7:50:31 AM >

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 7:52:48 AM

substobbws

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

There are really, really good, law abiding, hard working citizens in this country.
There are also many scumbag citizens that have been born and raised here.
Just as there are the same for illegals. Some are good. Some aren't.
I think it's more of a "type of person" thing going on here rather than a "where he's from" thing.
This story was major headlines in the local news by six the next morning. It's sad. It doesn't really matter whether or not the trigger was pulled by someone legal or illegal. Same end result. My solution...execute em all. Yes...I support the death penalty.

How can you be a law abiding illegal?

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 7:57:11 AM

domiguy

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It is hard to fathom but it appears that I have made a mistake....Friends of mine saw it mentioned in the Tribune....But I will not be detoured!!! The fact that is now driving this case is that the killer is an illegal.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 8:13:45 AM

substobbws

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It is hard to fathom but it appears that I have made a mistake....Friends of mine saw it mentioned in the Tribune....But I will not be detoured!!! The fact that is now driving this case is that the killer is an illegal.

Maybe with good reason. Like I said, we're already not getting what we've been paying for in the area of protecting our borders. We should know who's coming in here. What if he already had a criminal record in Peru?

I don't think anyone would argue that it all started with migrant farm workers who did/do work that legal Americans aren't willing to do for the money, not to mention largely physically couldn't do even if it paid $50 an hour. That bullshit turning a blind eye aspect of our legal system has now turned into what it is. I know many people who have been driven out of their occupations by illegals coming moving in, as I bet many of you do.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 8:36:45 AM

Aileen68

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quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

There are really, really good, law abiding, hard working citizens in this country.
There are also many scumbag citizens that have been born and raised here.
Just as there are the same for illegals. Some are good. Some aren't.
I think it's more of a "type of person" thing going on here rather than a "where he's from" thing.
This story was major headlines in the local news by six the next morning. It's sad. It doesn't really matter whether or not the trigger was pulled by someone legal or illegal. Same end result. My solution...execute em all. Yes...I support the death penalty.

How can you be a law abiding illegal?

Semantics.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 9:10:59 AM

substobbws

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

There are really, really good, law abiding, hard working citizens in this country.
There are also many scumbag citizens that have been born and raised here.
Just as there are the same for illegals. Some are good. Some aren't.
I think it's more of a "type of person" thing going on here rather than a "where he's from" thing.
This story was major headlines in the local news by six the next morning. It's sad. It doesn't really matter whether or not the trigger was pulled by someone legal or illegal. Same end result. My solution...execute em all. Yes...I support the death penalty.

How can you be a law abiding illegal?

Semantics.

I agree with 99% of what you said, only except for law abiding illegals. I know what you meant, that most are not breaking any more laws after coming here. I just still think the greater loss is to legal citizens when their jobs are displaced/they can't compete when deductions come out of their own pay. We're shoring up/paying for the corruption and poor economic systems in their home countries, and I believe it will eventually bring the U.S. down TO the economic level of their countries. I believe much of the world is gleefully sitting back and waiting to see that. We spend how much on defense only to fall from within.

Like I said, if I could walk into Canada and make ten times more? It would be their fault if they LET me in.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 9:14:11 AM

Aileen68

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Actually...I never said "law abiding illegals". You did.
I only said that some are good and some aren't.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 9:19:54 AM

substobbws

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

Actually...I never said "law abiding illegals". You did.
I only said that some are good and some aren't.

"Just as there are the same for illegals. "

I mistook you for meaning everything you wrote before that. No harm done.

There are so many who will try to claim that illegals have a right to be here. That's what I thought you were saying.

Let me go again. I agree 100% with what you're saying.

< Message edited by substobbws -- 8/11/2007 9:22:51 AM >

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 10:16:43 AM

Owner59

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Joined: 3/14/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

There are really, really good, law abiding, hard working citizens in this country.
There are also many scumbag citizens that have been born and raised here.
Just as there are the same for illegals. Some are good. Some aren't.
I think it's more of a "type of person" thing going on here rather than a "where he's from" thing.
This story was major headlines in the local news by six the next morning. It's sad. It doesn't really matter whether or not the trigger was pulled by someone legal or illegal. Same end result. My solution...execute em all. Yes...I support the death penalty.

How can you be a law abiding illegal?

illegal doesn`t = evil

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 10:47:05 AM

substobbws

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

There are really, really good, law abiding, hard working citizens in this country.
There are also many scumbag citizens that have been born and raised here.
Just as there are the same for illegals. Some are good. Some aren't.
I think it's more of a "type of person" thing going on here rather than a "where he's from" thing.
This story was major headlines in the local news by six the next morning. It's sad. It doesn't really matter whether or not the trigger was pulled by someone legal or illegal. Same end result. My solution...execute em all. Yes...I support the death penalty.

How can you be a law abiding illegal?

illegal doesn`t = evil

I couldn't agree more. Like I said, they're not doing anything I wouldn't do and I have nothing against them. There is something wrong with a government that collects taxes, one of it's jobs is to prevent it from happening, and it doesn't do it, though. I want my fucking money back! Countries much poorer than ours manage to protect their borders. There's no excuse. Why should other countries change their systems when people can just walk in here and send money home that their economies benefit from?

Yeah, that New Jersey incident falls under the topics of illegals, guns, taxes, and how many other things?

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 10:50:49 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

illegal doesn`t = evil

Lovely. We've progressed from slander and insult to quoting bumper stickers. No link to statistics from a La Raza website???

This kind of "thinking" just feeds the gridlock, and keeps the debate between the idiots of both extremes. Violent criminals who have entered this country illegally may not fit the talking points, but they are very much a reality that has to be addressed.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 10:56:10 AM

substobbws

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

illegal doesn`t = evil

Lovely. We've progressed from slander and insult to quoting bumper stickers. No link to statistics from a La Raza website???

This kind of "thinking" just feeds the gridlock, and keeps the debate between the idiots of both extremes. Violent criminals who have entered this country illegally may not fit the talking points, but they are very much a reality that has to be addressed.

I don't believe it should take shock news pertaining to the violent criminals to wake people up but, hey, if that's what it takes to get what we've already been paying for? If an illegal ever kills a NASCAR driver, watch out!

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 11:24:11 AM

substobbws

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People are pouring into this country while we have practically no unemployment. What's it going to be like the next time the economy takes a dive and they're STILL flooding in because it's better than where they came from? At what point do they stop, other than when our government forces it? When it's down to being no better here than when they came from? Sneaking across to Canada may no longer be a joke if that day comes.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 11:24:59 AM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Sorry DomiDude, your usual story won't work here tonight.

This WAS national news here in the Washington Post and local t.v. news and nationwide since it happened last weekend.

You really can't use your same old argument every time something new happens.

I don't understand those that attempt to downplay this as no big thing, it happens every day.

IF you really feel that way, so be it, but for some of us...it IS NEWS, it IS INTERESTING and we will be following it.

If you don't like it, and it does not interest YOU, just move along then, nothing to see here.

LOL

Go tuck yourself into bed.

It is a very interesting story that really does deserve some thought. First off, it is tragic...The nature of the crime is unimaginable, in it's simple disregard for human life.....The kids who were murdered and the one wounded all were good kids with tremendous futures that ahead of them. It is a horrible and offensive, mindless act of violence.

Since the breaking of the news that, Jose Carranza, the first man arrested was here illegally that this sad story has taken on a "new" life. The fact that he is here illegally is starting to play more prominently than the lives of those that he appears to have had a hand in murdering.

We should tighten our borders....People who come to this country should do so in a legal manner....That being said, I have no idea what that procedure entails, and for the majority of people that seek employment it is possibly not an alternative that is suitable to meet their needs. So across the border they come.

Living in Chicago, I have never known anyone that has been affected by this "illegal immigration epidemic." Perhaps some of the costs go unseens like higher insurance premiums, other than that I have experienced no personal negative effects..... Are there people out there that have lost jobs to illegals...I would guess the answer would have to be, yes.

To me it is non-issue....Should it be corrected...Sure. Are there potential downfalls that lie ahead if we don't take some sort of action...Absoloutely! Is this topic deserving of all the press that it has garnished?...No fucking way.

My acquaintances and friends are much more concerned with the outsourcing of jobs...The war, our declining and broke-ass school systems and the list goes on and on and fucking on and on.....I'm gong to speak for others, but if we were asked to seriously list the problems facing this country and the effect that these problems have on our lives...The horrible "plague of illegal immigrants" would probably not crack our "top ten."

As I said before it is just the latest "point and click" problem solver...You got a shitty job, life, health or spouse.. well there is the root of all of your problems....Let's blame them.

Trust me when this problem is "solved." The next Lou Dobbs will find someone or something to get the undies of an already uptight white America all in a bunch.

Peace.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 12:14:38 PM

SDFemDom4cuck

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quote:

Living in Chicago, I have never known anyone that has been affected by this "illegal immigration epidemic." Perhaps some of the costs go unseens like higher insurance premiums, other than that I have experienced no personal negative effects..... Are there people out there that have lost jobs to illegals...I would guess the answer would have to be, yes.

I'm affected by it on a daily basis, and I live 20 minutes from the border. There are 2 border checks within a 25 mile radius of where I live. One of which is rarely even manned or used for spot checks. I have never even had to slow my 90 mph speed going through it on my way to LA. The other can take up to 2 hours to pass through on a bad day. 45 minutes on a good day.

If you really want to see how the costs go unseen try this little experiment. Go to any insurance website and get quotes for two different zip codes on the same car. One there in IL (try 62526) and another here in San Diego, CA (92108). I don't know about you but my insurance was around $1700 for one year. I'm not talking a brand new luxury car. I'm talking about a 10 year old little coupe. When I enter in the other zip in IL it drops quite a bit in price.

To renew my tags every year is ridiculous. I paid $127 the last year I had it. I paid $218 for the 2005 yr model car that replaced it. The older the car gets, the lower the tag renewal price drops. I wouldnt dare refuse the non insured rider on my insurance because of the plethora of uninsured motorists on the road. To have a legal tag one must have insurance, to have insurance one must have a legal driver's license for the state, to have a license one must be a legal citizen of the state.

Let's talk housing prices, a friend of mine just sold his 900sqft (yes that was 900) condo for 250K. Prior to sale he was subletting it and getting $1700 a month for it in rent. Try going to the for rental section or housing sale prices at the SD Tribune online and look at what a home will cost you. Avg home prices are well into the $400K range for a 2bd/2ba 1500sqft home in a decent neighborhood. When some 1200sqft lofts were recently being built in my area that were selling for 300K they were sold out in 2 months prior to build.

My part of monthly employee health insurance payments were 198$ for a single person without any family members involved. One of my girls in the office paid close to $400 a month for a family of 4. My local taxes are 7.75% and soon to be going up to 8%. The price I pay at the gas pump just dropped below $3 ($2.98) for the first time this year for the lowest grade. The higher grades are still at $3.04 and $3.09 respectively as of this morning.

Not a rant, I'm just trying to show you comparitive prices for my area, an area that is considered a border town. As for the OP I'm not weighing in with an opinion either way. There are good and bad sides of the issue of illegal immigration as far as I'm concerned. What I will weigh in on is that 3 kids with promising futures are dead, and one is battling for her life. Regardless of color, place or economic situation, that is truly the horror.

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RE: Newark Mass Murder Suspect Is An Illegal Alien - 8/11/2007 12:41:03 PM

substobbws

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

quote:

Living in Chicago, I have never known anyone that has been affected by this "illegal immigration epidemic." Perhaps some of the costs go unseens like higher insurance premiums, other than that I have experienced no personal negative effects..... Are there people out there that have lost jobs to illegals...I would guess the answer would have to be, yes.

I'm affected by it on a daily basis, and I live 20 minutes from the border. There are 2 border checks within a 25 mile radius of where I live. One of which is rarely even manned or used for spot checks. I have never even had to slow my 90 mph speed going through it on my way to LA. The other can take up to 2 hours to pass through on a bad day. 45 minutes on a good day.

If you really want to see how the costs go unseen try this little experiment. Go to any insurance website and get quotes for two different zip codes on the same car. One there in IL (try 62526) and another here in San Diego, CA (92108). I don't know about you but my insurance was around $1700 for one year. I'm not talking a brand new luxury car. I'm talking about a 10 year old little coupe. When I enter in the other zip in IL it drops quite a bit in price.

To renew my tags every year is ridiculous. I paid $127 the last year I had it. I paid $218 for the 2005 yr model car that replaced it. The older the car gets, the lower the tag renewal price drops. I wouldnt dare refuse the non insured rider on my insurance because of the plethora of uninsured motorists on the road. To have a legal tag one must have insurance, to have insurance one must have a legal driver's license for the state, to have a license one must be a legal citizen of the state.

Let's talk housing prices, a friend of mine just sold his 900sqft (yes that was 900) condo for 250K. Prior to sale he was subletting it and getting $1700 a month for it in rent. Try going to the for rental section or housing sale prices at the SD Tribune online and look at what a home will cost you. Avg home prices are well into the $400K range for a 2bd/2ba 1500sqft home in a decent neighborhood. When some 1200sqft lofts were recently being built in my area that were selling for 300K they were sold out in 2 months prior to build.

My part of monthly employee health insurance payments were 198$ for a single person without any family members involved. One of my girls in the office paid close to $400 a month for a family of 4. My local taxes are 7.75% and soon to be going up to 8%. The price I pay at the gas pump just dropped below $3 ($2.98) for the first time this year for the lowest grade. The higher grades are still at $3.04 and $3.09 respectively as of this morning.

Not a rant, I'm just trying to show you comparitive prices for my area, an area that is considered a border town. As for the OP I'm not weighing in with an opinion either way. There are good and bad sides of the issue of illegal immigration as far as I'm concerned. What I will weigh in on is that 3 kids with promising futures are dead, and one is battling for her life. Regardless of color, place or economic situation, that is truly the horror.

Get me started on the government and taxes. When I own more than one vehicle, why should I have to buy a tag for each one when I can only drive/put wear and tear on the roads with one at a time?

Then there's the used vehicle sales tax. Why should state governments make sales tax over and over and over on a vehicle each time it changes hands? Why is it that if I sell you a used computer, that's fine. But if it's a used car for the same price, here they come. If a vehicle changes hands enough times, I'll bet they're raking in an amount in all the sales taxes to equal what the thing retailed new for!

I've said for years that the only reason our taxes are spread out in so many ways as they are is that people would revolt if it all came out in one big tax. I've heard that it boils down to around fifty cents of every dollar when you add it all up.

The fact that any level of government would ever raise it's percentage is ridiculous. If you're doing well, they'll do well since they're on percentage. If they're not doing well, it means you're not doing well and they need to tighten the hell up just like we do. When they bale water, they seem to do it directly into our boat!

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