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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 6:56:13 AM   
thetammyjo


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You address it with couples therapy and individual therapy.

The possible results run a range from you get everything you want (unlikely) to you end the marriage (mildly likely depending on how much work you BOTH are willing to do).

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(in reply to ericpup)
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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 7:00:06 AM   
lizcgirl


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Sometimes the 'love' you feel for some one doesn't survive the reality to day-to-day life. My ex and I had great sex... until we moved in together. The longer we lived together, the less  I wanted to sleep with him. I became the woman all guys dread- I nagged, avoided contact with him, made excuses. He would come up and kiss me and it would actually make me sick inside- it didn't matter if we had sex once a month or never by that point. Finally I just had to admit that there was nothing more to our relationship than sex and a fragile friendship and once we lived together, it wasn't strong enough to hold us together. I left. Sometimes when reality kills whatever you thought you had, it can make you bitter and resentful. Maybe she liked the casual relationship you two had more than the marriage. Not a pleasant take on the situation, but something different you might want to consider. If that is the case, maybe you could do something to bring the relationship back to how it was when it started. Obviously the 'sneeking around' played into it so maybe that heightened the desire for her. You could try doing some kind of public play but LIGHTLY- like ducking into another room at a party, etc, just something to give her that excitement back. Counseling is a VERY good suggestion if you want to try and make it work.

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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 7:02:23 AM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericpup

Why did I marry her?  Sometimes I ask myself the same damn question.  When we got involved, it seemed like we had a lot in common.  Same job, with the same dangers and rushes, we liked each other, (we still do), we seemed to get along, it seemed like a great relationship.  To be honest, with our varying schedules, we saw very little of each other when we were dating, and sex was a big part of our time together.  She was married and I was involved with someone, so we were sneaking around alot.  Then she got divorced, (she was in the middle of that when we hooked up, but she was still married,) and I ended my relationship, (for other reasons), and we got together.  I was working 60 to 75 hrs a week, she was working 50 to 60, and they weren't the same hours. 

We finally got different jobs, and now have more time together.  During this time, we've talked about the whole sex/BDSM/romance thing, and all of this stuff finally came out.  She has even made jokes about the time frame between being together.  She knows that it's a long time between...  And she's okay with that. 


Eric, it sounds like you landed a guppy that looked like a shark. But was a guppy.

And by guppy, I mean that your description of her screams submissive to me. She's been doing so much to please you, you don't appreciate that because you want to please HER, and BAM! Her sex drive vanishes.

Can you, like, top her and see what happens? I want to know if my totally baseless theorizing is correct. I'm thinking that if you'd reacted to "I did it to make you happy" with as much enthusiasm as I would have, then you'd have gotten her pants off her faster than you can say, "But she's not into that!"

Maybe the normal dynamic of your relationship is that you're the bitch and she's the pimp, but I'll lay money down that that doesn't get her motor running, and it was the newness of it all (or something else you had going on while you were dating) that got her. Perhaps you were so aggressively submissive to her, it got her going? I dunno, I'm just making shit up right now. But that's my gut call.

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(in reply to ericpup)
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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 7:14:04 AM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
quote:

ORIGINAL: ericpup
.... She was married and I was involved with someone, so we were sneaking around alot.  ...


 Okay, so you began your relationship with deception and betrayal .......

I'm getting old, I missed that one in my read through.  Thnx. 



Sadly, I've seen relationships that started with deception and betrayal work out beautifully, except of course for the party that was betrayed. "Let he without shame cast the first stone" and all that... I've never cheated on a girlfriend, I've never lied or hidden one girl from another, but I've seen it done successfully; the wife and her new paramour are still happily married, while the ex-husband is shit out of luck. And frankly, it's his fault.

I wish I could judge them on these grounds, but my experience has been that it's rarely this simple.

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"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 7:19:36 AM   
DMFParadox


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I also have to agree with counseling. But it ain't that easy to get it, depending on your economic status, so I'm not going to beat you over the head with the talking stick. Still, there are alternatives; church pastors/priests/high druids/grand poobahs provide help, as do local support groups. Check with your nearest holy man first, they deal with this relationship stuff way more often than they do with existential crises. Chances are he can point you in the right direction.

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bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to DMFParadox)
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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 7:26:11 AM   
girlivy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

sex 5 times since may??? hey thats once a month....thats more than most people!!!!

Agreed here!  I was always taught be happy with what you get, or you get NOTHING!
Seriously OP, unless both are willing to work on resolving the issues, it does sound like it is over.  So you both hit a brick wall, now, you both must choose to either allow it to "stop" you from moving forward together, or aid you in moving forward on your own. Brick walls I feel are there to challange us. Either way i do with you luck and may you find peace in your choices.
Cheers!

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(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)
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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 8:02:39 AM   
ChampagneMojito


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To the OP:

You are not 'entitled' to sex - kinky or otherwise - with your wife, regardless of what her sexual preferences were with other partners before you married.  Both partners have to want sex at the same time.  The reasons she doesn't want sex with you could be manifold - perhaps she's angry with you, tired, depressed, weary, frustrated, turned off, pissed off, lonely.  Who knows?  The fact is you need to find the answer to those questions and quit sounding so whiney and demanding - they're both unattractive traits and unlikely to get her creaming her knickers for you.

Wishing you well.

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(in reply to girlivy)
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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 11:00:02 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

I strongly suspect that it has a lot to do with the way in which you suggest sex - apparently, all the time. I don't blame you.
I suggest sex a lot, too. It might be down to about 15 times a day, now that my time with Master on work days is limited to an hour in the morning, (when we are already having sex) and 2 or 3 hours at night (when, usually... oh, never mind).

But, I am going to get bashed for this, but - read John Grey.
If you are hyper focused on sex, my advice isn't going to work, because you are going to change it subtly and fuck it up badly.
Be swwet, romantic, and - after a while of that, even gently and playfully physical together, without it being about sex. I suspect that the fact that everything you do and everything you say is focused on your acheiving your goals and getting your rocks off in your way is making her not want it at all. It's like making me eat all of my food covered with chocolate - I like chocolate alot, but, i'm going to get sick of chocolate.
She opened up to you and talked to you about finding a woman sexy. instead of just cuddling up and enjoying the moment with her, you jumped in - here's an open door! let's talk about me getting what I want!
and from your writing, it sounds like that happens a lot. can you just kiss her in the morning without it leading to talking about sexy? spoon her at night without trying to have sex?
Why does her liking different sensations than you make her cold? She does not like the feel of your cock being artificially vibrated. You do. So, in your mind, your 'right', and she is unsexual.
Sounds like she was sexual enough before you met her.
If I told you 'focus on her needs for a while', you'd say, 'I have. I want to know what SHE LIKES (you mean, what kind of sex...) what she needs ( what kind of sex)...'
John Grey says, one difference between men and women is, for men, sex happens in the bedroom. For women, sex is everything, everywhere.
It's the pat on the ass in the kitchen. It's the flowers you bring her. It's holding hands, talking over dinner.
(before I get attacked, yes, John Grey over generalizes. In particular, lifestyle people seem much less likely to focus on 'the act' as sex. But there are some truths in the generalities)
When was the last time you took her out for a cozy dinner, sat talking over candlelight, holding hands - and never mentioned sex? had no advance motive to get in her pants?
I suspect it has been so long that you will now have to do it repeatedly to gain back her trust.
She doesn't want to have sex with you because 'that's all you think about'. IOW, you make her feel like sex is the only reason you care about her.
Run her a bubble bath, light some candles, pour some wine and put a book by the bathtub, when she comes home tired from work. Then - leave the fucking bathroom. Go play Doom. Let her relax.
Watch a movie and snuggle, without looking for an opening in the movie to bring up 'the talk' again.
Serriously. It's not sex that is the problem. It is that you have made her feel like that is all she is to you. Get sex out of the equation until you win her trust back.
And go to councelling. What CC said.


I just felt like this needed repeating. Been there, done that... and believe me, there is nothing worse then putting up with that. I dated a guy once that seemed to always pick fights right before bed and then had the gall to be upset that I wasn't "in the mood"!! I talked to him about it, told that women don't work that way, you piss us off or upset us chances are we're gonna be pissed off or upset for a while! Well, a couple of weeks later I came home from work, early afternoon on a weekend, and he said something crappy and immediately followed that with "Well, I guess I'm not gonna get any tonight!" GRRRRR!!! I told him most definately not NOW!
 
If everything you do, think, say and feel is related to an "I wonder if this will get me laid" attitude... well, don't kid yourself, we know when that is going on in a guys head, we aren't stupid, and it's a major turn off! Yes, women like to be thought of, we love it when a guy goes out of their way to do something really special for us... but not if it's got that ulterior motive attached to it.
 
I understand it's a frustrating time, I really do. You want her to want you like you want her, but right now she sees you as a walking hardon looking for a parking spot! And let me share with you how that makes us feel... ok? Especially coming from a sub male! It makes us feel like we're nothing more to you then an entertainment center, body cavities on legs, useless unless we're wet and slobbering for your attention. You wanna know how to "deal" with her? Ok, how's this, treat her like a human being instead of a defective sex doll.
 
I know... I'm ranting...
 
Jewel

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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 11:32:46 AM   
FRSguy


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I feel sorry or ya man. Honestly I have been there and all I can say is get out fast.  You have been set up by a bitches bitch.

(in reply to CalifChick)
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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 2:19:43 PM   
MidMichCowboy


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It sounds to me like you are trying to set up a rational for cheating.

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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 2:39:05 PM   
stella41b


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I just see a mess.. a total and complete mess. Seems like between the two of you you've both made a right pig's ear of the marriage. And despite your attempts the blame very rarely lies on one side. Think about this.

My suggestion is a counsellor, or even better a support group.

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(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 2:48:42 PM   
Lockit


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Stupid is stupid and when you enter a relationship based on some of the factors here and then complain about it... well I think that is just stupid.  Take your lumps, you were the one hitting yourself in the head.  This isn't a sexual problem... it is a stupid problem.  Stupid choices, lack of charactor and repeated stupid stuff.  Before you lay blame and try to sort it all out, you might want to figure out why you are led by things that are stupid rather than rational and adult.

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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 3:07:48 PM   
wulfgarw


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Those who know me have heard me say this, so I will say it here.

Marriage.  Is.   Bad.

I have never seen anything good come of ANY marriage, be it gay or straight.  I will say it again for clarity.

Marriage. Is.  Bad.

Like the joke says,scientists found a food that completely eliminates a woman's sex drive.  It's called wedding cake.

But that's the beginning.  She's already got a lawyer and judge (man hating Uber-feminists btw) lined up for the divorce to take everything, the bank accounts, the $50K SUV she 'must' have, the house, and even the dog, all before the wedding.  She alienates you from your friends.  Then she tries to burn the house down for the fire insurance.

Marriage. Is. Bad.




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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 3:53:51 PM   
Nikolette


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OP, ericpup: My suggestion is to talk to her openly and honestly about what you expected. I suggest you own some responsibility for not having taken the proper amount of time and discussion about expectations and conceptions about your relationship and how it will function. Its quite unwise to assume how people will behave based on what you've concluded they did rather than talking to them openly and saying: "I want us to do these things ___. Do you like those? I thought you might because _____. Is that really how you feel? What would you like to do? How do you see our marriage? What do you see us doing in these areas: sex, children, religion, money, household care/chores, etc? This is what I see us doing ____."

Its not too late to talk to her about these ares if you still have feelings for her and want to continue the relationship.

Try asking... "What do you want from our marriage? How do you feel about our relationship? What can ~I~ do to improve our sex life/marriage/intimacy/trust/communication?" In addition to the before mentioned stuff, that is.

Go to marriage counseling. It may help you both to talk frankly, and give you professional guidance and direction for how to improve, and heal from the disillusionment.

Don't have children or add more responsibilities (mortgage/pets) until this is all resolved, plus a year or so.

And if none of that works, cut your loses and move on. Wait a while, figure out what you want. Try out a couple casual relationships before settling down into anything intense again. Practice your communication skills. Make a list of attributes (not a laundry list) that you find appealing in others, and a list of attributes you find hard to live with. Seek partners that have the "good" ones and avoid commitments with those people who have the "bad" ones. Be the person you wish to find. Keep working on that, and enjoy the labor.



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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 4:00:51 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wulfgarw

Those who know me have heard me say this, so I will say it here.

Marriage.  Is.   Bad.

I have never seen anything good come of ANY marriage, be it gay or straight.  I will say it again for clarity.

Marriage. Is.  Bad.

Like the joke says,scientists found a food that completely eliminates a woman's sex drive.  It's called wedding cake.

But that's the beginning.  She's already got a lawyer and judge (man hating Uber-feminists btw) lined up for the divorce to take everything, the bank accounts, the $50K SUV she 'must' have, the house, and even the dog, all before the wedding.  She alienates you from your friends.  Then she tries to burn the house down for the fire insurance.

Marriage. Is. Bad.





So. Is. Stereotyping.


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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 4:13:28 PM   
DesFIP


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You married her based on what you heard about her sexually. You never talked to her openly. And now, you've taught her that if you hold her hand for five minutes, you expect her to pay for that with sex.

Individual therapy for both of you and then couple therapy.

And one night a week, you sit on the couch and talk for an hour. No tv, no hugging and kissing, and no attempt to get laid, don't talk about it, don't think about it. Set up a schedule for household chores where you can do them together. Saturday morning go to the farmer's market together. Do nonsexual stuff together to help repair the friendship. Don't expect to get paid with sex.

You treat her like she's a prostitute but instead of money you give her fake friendship. People don't enjoy things for fun that they do for work. You've turned sex into a chore, into work for her.

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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 5:50:59 PM   
ResidentSadist


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If you are my wife and I can afford to but don’t pay to feed you, clothe you or provide shelter, you can divorce on grounds of neglect and take half.  But if you are able to fuck me but neglect me anyway and I go elsewhere for sex, you file for divorce and get half.  When dating if a wench doesn’t hold a man's interest with sex he goes elsewhere.  Same should be true in marriage, god bless the prenuptial agreements! 

It’s just sex.  It’s no more work than cleaning a kitchen.  The real issue is POWER and control.  Sex being the woman’s last bastion of control because once married, she can withhold and send guys like the OP to the corner crying.

Even when the Domly and powerful  Aristotle Onassis bought himself a presidential piece of ass (Jacqueline Kennedy), their marriage contract (foreign) stated that she had to fuck him 10 times a year or the kids lost their rights to the inheritance. 

I am not saying the OP didn’t make any mistakes.  But some of the high horses I see people getting on claiming sex isn’t expected as part of the marital exchange sorta’ makes me laugh.  No right to have sex with the wife?  Well, maybe that is true here in the matriarchal United States, but on a power exchange forum?  Come on guys, step away from the ERA flags please.

As far as “stereotyping” and “marriage is bad” goes, well, lets just say that prenuptial agreements are good and leave it at that.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 9/23/2008 5:54:19 PM >


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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 6:08:18 PM   
wulfgarw


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I base my "marriage is bad" hypothesis on 3 precepts.  Both of my best friends are in marriages and they fight/argue with their wives constantly.  My father is working on marriage #9 I think.  Lost count after 6 and never knew or met the last 3 wives.  They end badly in every case.  And finally, has anyone ever met a truly happy married couple?  One or both, in my observations, were faking being happy.

If you love someone, what's wrong with just being with them? 

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 6:12:15 PM   
BossyShoeBitch


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Phil?  Is that you?

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RE: Not-so-happy Anniversary to me - 9/23/2008 6:15:26 PM   
giveeverything


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wulfgarw


But that's the beginning.  She's already got a lawyer and judge (man hating Uber-feminists btw) lined up for the divorce to take everything, the bank accounts, the $50K SUV she 'must' have, the house, and even the dog, all before the wedding.  She alienates you from your friends.  Then she tries to burn the house down for the fire insurance.

  I vote that misogyny is bad... but... that's just me.

< Message edited by giveeverything -- 9/23/2008 6:16:55 PM >

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