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RemoteUser -> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible (5/18/2012 1:55:35 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
When I used the word miscarriage, I used it as it is medically defined. I do not see what any other definition has to do with my intended use of the word, which was the medical definition of miscarriage. So NONE of the points I was making have to do with stillbirth. Period.
I am not slamming religion. There are religions that do not have a problem with abortion. So what you are saying is that ONE religion should determine policy. And I am saying if you respect people's right to believe in any god they choose, then leave the rest of the believers who do not follow your god's perspective alone. If freedom of religion means anything, it means one religion should NOT dominate public policy at the expense of other people's beliefs. I know many people from many religions who do not have an issue with abortion. This, coupled with the fact that NO religion mandates death rites for a miscarriage seems rather dispositive of this issue. If YOUR religion prohibits something, then don't do it. But don't impose that on people who believe in other religions. What, exactly, gives YOU the right to impose your religious belief on someone else? What makes your religion pre-eminent amongst other religions? Why is your god more important than that of any other person. I come from a religion that predates Christianity and Islam. And I'm not interested in having someone else's religious viewpoint imposed on me politically. If you claim to respect religion then respect the fact that not all religions are in agreement on this topic. And even within religions, not all spiritual leaders and religious scholars are in agreement either. Imposing your religious view as a political matter encroaches on MY freedom of religion.
If one politically defines life beginning at conception, then my tampon example is, in fact, accurate. If it is life at conception then every miscarriage is a death. Every miscarriage (there are 700,000 of them each year in the U.S.) must be considered a death with proper religious rites. Many religions believe that the remains of a human life MUST be buried with proper rites. So, yes, in order to fulfill that religious requirement, a woman would have to save her tampon. What other remains are there to bury with a miscarriage? NONE. So how does one fulfill the religious requirement:
1 Corinthians 15:35-55
It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
…Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die, this Scripture will be fulfilled: "Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" (Excerpt Verses 42-44; 54-55 NLT)
Please explain to me how anything other than burial of the tampon would fulfill this?
Burial is also a requirement for those of Jewish and Islamic faith.
You're kind of enforcing my point that you're only accepting the medical definition, which renders the OP's question useless since it demands only one answer be considered. As for stillborn and miscarriage, one has been used to describe the other before and yes, by medically trained people, so if you don't like the definition fine; but don't label it wrong only because you disagree.
That said, my mouth isn't big enough for all the words you tried to put in it. I never stated anything about one religion. I never said I was religious, so you were not paying attention. It's in black and white. Go back and read it. I mentioned the popular religious view, which just means majority, not everything, and certainly not absolute. Now if that's not you reading into it to attack religion then what is it? If you're that incapable of reading my post, please don't comment on it, it only makes you look bad.
Nor did I try to implicate that your don't have freedom of religion/thought. In fact I would like to see you express it comprehensively, that is to say, stick to what is actually said...
You did make a good effort detailing the tampon example, but it falls apart when you consider the following:
- burial rites vary by religion and even by denomination, you can't lump them together to make your life easier
- if the miscarriage is not witnessed, why is that - and yes here, indulge religion founded by the Bible you chose to quote - is it because G-d doesn't want you to know? Is it the work of the Devil? Do you know for a fact? If not, then don't assume your answer is also factually accurate just because it falls within the confines of what you think you know.
- following through on that, if the miscarriage happens without notice who is to say it didn't pass while urinating? Even women of biblical times removed their leather strap to pee. And where did they pee? On the ground? Well, that satisfies one requirement. Can ground be hallowed? Yup, assuming we stick to the religion you keep referencing. So if one is made aware of the fact then something can be done, if it is thought through, and if it was not you cannot say factually that that isn't because it was meant to be that way. You can only assume there is no G-d and attack from that stance, which makes quoting the Bible just a convenient tool without substance.
In short, you are making broad assumptions about the situation and quoting the Bible only to try and sound right, without allowing for alternative viewpoints. I gave you an alternative: hallow the ground the woman has walked on and urinated on. Hallowing can vary by application so I am trying to be as general as possible. You don't have to like it, but it is feasible.
Edited because I hate typos.
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