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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 4:45:06 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

quote:

Well, where do you, as an individual, think most of the blame lies? Who is the 'bad guy' (or 'bad gal') for you, on this, and why do you lay the blame that way?

Blame the ones who CONTROL the discussion about rape in mainstream media. As feminists run the show in the rape victim industry, how can you not place some blame on them?

All right 'some of the blame', for the sake of argument. Where do you place the rest of it?

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 4:45:36 PM

ThatDizzyChick

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Stop treating people in general as children and hold them responsible for their thoughts and actions

Ah, I see, so the problem is just that most people (both men and women) are just uncaring heartless assholes who hate men.

Well, I disagree, I think that most people are in fact very caring overall, and think that there may well be some broader societal factors that play into people holding those uncaring heartless assholish attitudes towards men who are victims of rape.

So, why do you think that most people (both men and women) are such uncaring heartless asshole who hate men? What is behind that, is there some identifiable reason, or is it just an essential aspect of human nature?

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 4:50:15 PM

Lucylastic

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mostly rape victims/survivors and their families. You want to blame people who have been affected by rape for doing something about it so that other people dont have to go thru the same humiliation shame dread and fear of reporting ....
yeah seems reasonable
for a complete cunt.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 4:50:20 PM

ThatDizzyChick

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Blame the ones who CONTROL the discussion about rape in mainstream media.

i see. Well how do you explain the existence of the very same social stigma in the olden days when there was no feminists or mainstream media. Who was to blame then? Or even how do you explain how in countries like Saudi Arabia, where there is almost zero feminist presence in the media, the social stigma is much stronger?

See, if your theory cannot explain those elements, then your theory is automatically unfit, it is by default incorrect.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 5:36:28 PM

PeonForHer

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Pfft. This is a waste of time. RM long ago decided that his comrades and brothers were amongst the ultra-Right. Anything that is wrong in society must never, just never, be the fault of the traditional powers that be. Goes without saying. Men getting packed off to get conscripted into the military, then slaughtered in their millions, war after war? That's down to feminists, somehow - even though it happened for a thousand or more years before feminists even existed. Men getting raped? Again, somehow, the baddie here is feminists - though that's been going on since the dawn of time and millennia before feminists ever existed, too.

The basic problem here is that if a given social malady can't be laid at the door of feminists/lefties/any other group that isn't the powers that be ... then RM has no analysis for it, doesn't know what to do with it - and will, in general, avoid talking about it. He asks that people 'respect men'. But on the most blatantly huge matters that have hurt men, through the ages - like their being forced to go off risk their lives in battle, for instance ... he has nothing to say. He never has had - I've asked him often enough and got no answer. This is because he knows damned well that he can't plausibly put the blame for such things on feminism or anything else that is the product of the Left. And all this is abundantly true of the matter at hand: male rape. It doesn't fit into the worldview that he's made his comfy home - so, that is that. Change the subject.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 12/8/2016 5:38:20 PM >

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 5:44:39 PM

ThatDizzyChick

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This is a waste of time.

yeah, but still it's kind of fun.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 6:13:40 PM

respectmen

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Dizzy

Back before feminism in media, there was hardly or no talk about rape. It was treated like any other violent crime, as it should be. Nothing special.

However these days with gender obsessed feminists in mainstream media, they jump up and down about rape on females to drive their female victimhood agenda while hardly any mention with rape on males due to their female victimhood agenda. This even furthers and worsens the problem with male rape victims as it would condition society to feel even more distant from any empathy and awareness for male victims compared to before feminism came into mainstream media.

Of course you don't want to admit that.

quote:

See, if your theory cannot explain those elements

These elements you speak of, the social stigmas can pretty much stem from men stronger, women weaker. From there on, we have seen a lot of messed up judgements between men and women based on that simple fact. DV, rape.

If you want to blame patriarchy, you need to prove if this certain opinion would be any different if women happened to run governments in society. If you can't, blaming patriarchy isn't factual and realistic. Some women have the same beliefs as men, some men have the same beliefs as women. Some people, men and women, are on the left. Other people, men and women, are on the right. Some women hate feminism, other women love feminism. Some men hate feminism, other men love feminism. People have opinions not based on gender but who they are as individuals. So blaming people in powerful positions in society based on their gender (patriarchy) for social opinions in society is a very simplistic standpoint.

Peon

Where have I blamed feminism for why men get drafted to war? It would be interesting if you can cite where I have blamed feminism for men being drafted to war. If you can't, that wouldn't be telling everyone that you're lying now, would it?

Where have I blamed feminism for why men get raped?It would be interesting if you can cite where I have blamed feminism for why men get raped. If you can't, that wouldn't be telling everyone that you're lying now, would it?

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 6:17:03 PM

Lucylastic

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Back before feminism in media, there was hardly or no talk about rape. It was treated like any other violent crime, as it should be. Nothing special.

just how far back are you suggesting this is true?

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 6:19:09 PM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Blame the ones who CONTROL the discussion about rape in mainstream media. As feminists run the show in the rape victim industry, how can you not place some blame on them?

I've defended you, on a few occasions, but you are so far out of line, here that you need your ass kicked (verbally). Apparently, that's one of our rights, now.

While there was some mention of feminism and patriarchy, YOU saw an opportunity and decided to make the thread about that, instead of the topic at hand.

But, since we're here, let me say that "patriarchy" is tangentially to blame. You see, if a man gets raped by another man, he's obviously effeminate or wanted it to happen on some level. That's what "patriarchy" teaches us.

One of these days, while you have your head up your ass, you should take a good look at your own shit, instead of everyone else's.

Michael

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 6:26:23 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

Peon

Where have I blamed feminism for why men get drafted to war? It would be interesting if you can cite where I have blamed feminism for men being drafted to war. If you can't, that wouldn't be telling everyone that you're lying now, would it?

You haven't and I never said that you had. Stop trying to straw man me (and in such a bloody obvious way, too). Whenever I've brought up the subject, you've avoided talking about it, precisely because you know that you can't blame it on feminists or even the Left in general.

In all your thought-processes, you *start* with who you *just know* to be the baddies, and work your way back from there as to how said baddies must be the fundamental culprit for whichever social malaise is being discussed at any given time. If you can't plausibly do that, you just don't discuss the subject at all. Men being packed off to get killed in wars, over and again - whilst brilliantly obviously being a problem that men face and therefore something that one might expect you, 'respectmen', to take issue with in a very big way - cannot plausibly be laid at the door of your preferred enemies, the feminists and lefties. So: you just don't discuss it. Likewise, from what I can see here, with the matter of male rape. It's abundantly clear that you don't love men, RM. Instead, you hate feminists - and lefties. You have a hate-target - and that's all you have.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 12/8/2016 6:30:08 PM >

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 6:26:24 PM

respectmen

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DS

Try to kick my arse all you want, I will headbutt you and knock you out, buddy

Anyway, I'm not blaming feminism for why men get raped. I'm placing a part of the blame on feminism in today's society for the social stigma against male rape victims. Only a moron wouldn't be able to comprehend the difference. I explained this above.

As to your theory on blaming patriarchy, I already refuted the whole patriarchy blame game above.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 6:26:49 PM

tamaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Blame the ones who CONTROL the discussion about rape in mainstream media. As feminists run the show in the rape victim industry, how can you not place some blame on them?

I've defended you, on a few occasions, but you are so far out of line, here that you need your ass kicked (verbally). Apparently, that's one of our rights, now.

While there was some mention of feminism and patriarchy, YOU saw an opportunity and decided to make the thread about that, instead of the topic at hand.

But, since we're here, let me say that "patriarchy" is tangentially to blame. You see, if a man gets raped by another man, he's obviously effeminate or wanted it to happen on some level. That's what "patriarchy" teaches us.

One of these days, while you have your head up your ass, you should take a good look at your own shit, instead of everyone else's.

Michael

What? I don't think anyone would think that way. I don't know how old you are but maybe that kind of thinking is a generational thing.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 6:33:07 PM

Wayward5oul

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Blame the ones who CONTROL the discussion about rape in mainstream media. As feminists run the show in the rape victim industry, how can you not place some blame on them?

I've defended you, on a few occasions, but you are so far out of line, here that you need your ass kicked (verbally). Apparently, that's one of our rights, now.

While there was some mention of feminism and patriarchy, YOU saw an opportunity and decided to make the thread about that, instead of the topic at hand.

But, since we're here, let me say that "patriarchy" is tangentially to blame. You see, if a man gets raped by another man, he's obviously effeminate or wanted it to happen on some level. That's what "patriarchy" teaches us.

One of these days, while you have your head up your ass, you should take a good look at your own shit, instead of everyone else's.

Michael

What? I don't think anyone would think that way. I don't know how old you are but maybe that kind of thinking is a generational thing.

No, its not. Its fairly common across generations. And part of the problem in today's society, even as progressive as we all like to pretend we are.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 6:33:25 PM

tamaka

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ORIGINAL: respectmen

Dizzy

Back before feminism in media, there was hardly or no talk about rape. It was treated like any other violent crime, as it should be. Nothing special.

However these days with gender obsessed feminists in mainstream media, they jump up and down about rape on females to drive their female victimhood agenda while hardly any mention with rape on males due to their female victimhood agenda. This even furthers and worsens the problem with male rape victims as it would condition society to feel even more distant from any empathy and awareness for male victims compared to before feminism came into mainstream media.

Of course you don't want to admit that.

quote:

See, if your theory cannot explain those elements

These elements you speak of, the social stigmas can pretty much stem from men stronger, women weaker. From there on, we have seen a lot of messed up judgements between men and women based on that simple fact. DV, rape.

If you want to blame patriarchy, you need to prove if this certain opinion would be any different if women happened to run governments in society. If you can't, blaming patriarchy isn't factual and realistic. Some women have the same beliefs as men, some men have the same beliefs as women. Some people, men and women, are on the left. Other people, men and women, are on the right. Some women hate feminism, other women love feminism. Some men hate feminism, other men love feminism. People have opinions not based on gender but who they are as individuals. So blaming people in powerful positions in society based on their gender (patriarchy) for social opinions in society is a very simplistic standpoint.

Peon

Where have I blamed feminism for why men get drafted to war? It would be interesting if you can cite where I have blamed feminism for men being drafted to war. If you can't, that wouldn't be telling everyone that you're lying now, would it?

Where have I blamed feminism for why men get raped?It would be interesting if you can cite where I have blamed feminism for why men get raped. If you can't, that wouldn't be telling everyone that you're lying now, would it?

So you are saying with the focus on female rape victims (9 out of 10) it is isolating and stigmatizing male rape victims (1 out of 10) because rape is seen as a female crime victim problem as opposed to a human crime victim problem. And maybe it makes it worse because it is making the male have to experience the shame of a 'female crime' which maked it all the more demeaning to them?

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 6:56:31 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
We, as a society, need to stop telling men that they are somehow failures as men if this happens to them, or if they don't just shut up and deal with it "like a man". We need to let them know that it is not their fault, that it does not diminish them as men, and that it is perfectly OK for them to be devastated by a devastating event.

Edit: And that is my considered opinion as an ardent feminist, based on my understanding of what feminism is.

Anally raped by another male, they may feel like failures. And it's about perception, honestly if you think about any male you care about get anally raped by another male, personally for me, the first thing I would be worried about is if he would get suicidal. I'd be on suicide watch. I take it very seriously. I think most people, male or female would know the severe damaging effect of this to a male.

But from whatever I experienced with my brother who was raped by a woman. He wasn't so affected by it. He just thought, it was serious bad luck. But he didn't exhibit signs of any trauma, withdrawal, everything went as per normal, he did not get withdrawn or depressed. He got over it very fast. Doing well in his job, still active, and involve and positive. Great relationship with his fiancee.
I was monitoring him closely. And didn't see any signs of downward spiral. Whereas if it is a female. CONFIRM lots of signs.

I think there is a huge difference on the impact of when a male gets raped by a female, versus when a male gets rape by a male.

I think it's also the psychological action of, anally raped is being penetrated, that's what causes trauma. Whereas a male being raped by a female is like, simply being forced to penetrate into someone.

Like, it doesn't threaten a man's manhood when he talks about female raping him, but it threatens his manhood if he talks about male raping him.

My brother is in his early twenties when this happened. His rapist was a woman in her late 40's.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/8/2016 7:03:48 PM >

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 7:08:27 PM

respectmen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: respectmen

Dizzy

Back before feminism in media, there was hardly or no talk about rape. It was treated like any other violent crime, as it should be. Nothing special.

However these days with gender obsessed feminists in mainstream media, they jump up and down about rape on females to drive their female victimhood agenda while hardly any mention with rape on males due to their female victimhood agenda. This even furthers and worsens the problem with male rape victims as it would condition society to feel even more distant from any empathy and awareness for male victims compared to before feminism came into mainstream media.

Of course you don't want to admit that.

quote:

See, if your theory cannot explain those elements

These elements you speak of, the social stigmas can pretty much stem from men stronger, women weaker. From there on, we have seen a lot of messed up judgements between men and women based on that simple fact. DV, rape.

If you want to blame patriarchy, you need to prove if this certain opinion would be any different if women happened to run governments in society. If you can't, blaming patriarchy isn't factual and realistic. Some women have the same beliefs as men, some men have the same beliefs as women. Some people, men and women, are on the left. Other people, men and women, are on the right. Some women hate feminism, other women love feminism. Some men hate feminism, other men love feminism. People have opinions not based on gender but who they are as individuals. So blaming people in powerful positions in society based on their gender (patriarchy) for social opinions in society is a very simplistic standpoint.

Peon

Where have I blamed feminism for why men get drafted to war? It would be interesting if you can cite where I have blamed feminism for men being drafted to war. If you can't, that wouldn't be telling everyone that you're lying now, would it?

Where have I blamed feminism for why men get raped?It would be interesting if you can cite where I have blamed feminism for why men get raped. If you can't, that wouldn't be telling everyone that you're lying now, would it?

So you are saying with the focus on female rape victims (9 out of 10) it is isolating and stigmatizing male rape victims (1 out of 10) because rape is seen as a female crime victim problem as opposed to a human crime victim problem. And maybe it makes it worse because it is making the male have to experience the shame of a 'female crime' which maked it all the more demeaning to them?

Yes, correct. :)

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 7:09:01 PM

Wayward5oul

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Is there a recognized medical opinion on whether or not males need a different approach than females?

As far as I know there is not. To the best of my knowledge it has not really been studied, in part because it is not only quite rare in comparison, but is far, far, far more undereported, so it is much more difficult to study or reach a consensus on.

Again, this is only according to my very limited knowledge on this aspect of the issue, but my understanding is that most of the "help" offered to male rape victims is done many years later during counselling/therapy for the problems that surface much later on, as a result of the man repressing/hiding what happened to him. And that is, by definition, more of "fix-the-fuck-up" than a "prevent-the-fuck-up" approach.

My understanding of the situation is the same as yours. I was doing some reading this evening on the internet, and read somewhere that as late as the 90s in the US almost 40% of centers designed to help victims of sexual violence didn't accept male clients.

That has largely changed now, even shifty said she was the only female in her group. But I still feel like a male coping with the trauma is going to require different methods than a female coping, and there just hasn't been the opportunity to really figure that out yet. So even if males are reporting at the time of the rape, we still have a long way to go in terms of treating them as effectively as we (hope) are treating females.

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 7:10:20 PM

Greta75

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ORIGINAL: Aylee
To both of you.

I believe in the rule of law. I disagree with extra-judicial punishment. It is also unethical to take away a person's right to defend themselves and then not protect them. While some one is in prison/jail, no matter WHAT THE CHARGES, they are protected by the state. That protection includes protection from other prisoners.

That does not even begin to discuss what it does to those becoming the form of punishment.

It is distasteful and disgusting.

Yea, protect the attacker of a 3 yr old, rather than make the punishment so HARSH that would prevent assholes like this dude from ever assaulting another 3 yr old again! Taste of his own medicine! Should cure him of his sickness!
THE LAW should make it an official punishment like death Penalty is an official punishment!

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 7:13:47 PM

Greta75

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FR
Can like one man here explain to me, two things.

1) Raped by Female

2) Raped by Male

How would they like to be treated? What after-care do they require from their loves one? Do they need to talk about it? Be allowed to cry in a safe space? What?

And if you are straight male, would it feel differently on the severity whether the rape involves anal rape or simply being forced to penetrate a woman?

Also another interesting point about gay males, I don't understand alot about gay males, but as they are men, they are seldom demi sexuals. What is the impact on them if they were raped by another male?

I have a feeling, it is not the same as like if a female is raped by a male. But I wouldn't know, since I am not a gay male to be in their shoes.

Naturally by being a woman, I can completely understand what a woman goes through but absolutely have no clue when it comes to males.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/8/2016 7:16:57 PM >

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RE: When no one calls it rape - 12/8/2016 7:14:01 PM

Wayward5oul

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
To both of you.

I believe in the rule of law. I disagree with extra-judicial punishment. It is also unethical to take away a person's right to defend themselves and then not protect them. While some one is in prison/jail, no matter WHAT THE CHARGES, they are protected by the state. That protection includes protection from other prisoners.

That does not even begin to discuss what it does to those becoming the form of punishment.

It is distasteful and disgusting.

Yea, protect the attacker of a 3 yr old, rather than make the punishment so HARSH that would prevent assholes like this dude from ever assaulting another 3 yr old again! Taste of his own medicine! Should cure him of his sickness!
THE LAW should make it an official punishment like death Penalty is an official punishment!

You are contradicting yourself here Greta. In your first post you said to let others (not the law) punish them further. Here you say the law should make the harsher punishment. Which is it? Because the issue is about whether or not to let people take the law into their own hands.

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